VOPS
in [Visual Objects]
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From: Ginny Caughey on 17 Nov 2005 19:31 Johel, I'm not sure I understand you, but if you want open source tools, then you are wasting your time here. VO and Vulcan are not open source. The developers who work on them have to be paid so they can feed their families because they work full time on VO and Vulcan. It's not a hobby for them or something they do in their spare time when it's raining. -- Ginny "Johel" <johelsouzafilho(a)uol.com.br> wrote in message news:1132272851.233453.155760(a)o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... > Ginny, > >> I think if I were running Grafx (and all of us like telling Brian how to >> run >> Grafx from time to time <g>) I'd even consider only selling VO and Vulcan >> with an included VOPS-type service. That's what I do with my customers >> and >> it's a win-win scenario that makes everybody happy. My competitors all do >> the same, and it makes sense for a small company. > > And then you would close the market for Vulcan in the rest of the World > (excluding West Europe and Australia). You sure do not have customers > outside of USA and Canada, do you? > > If you did not understand it, then read this: > > -------------------------------------- > Open source: Developing markets look for alternatives to U.S. > > The results, even after software price discounts, indicated that the > cost of proprietary software for developing markets is "enormous" in > terms of relative purchasing power. The price of Microsoft's Windows XP > and Office XP on Amazon.com in the U.S. is equal to almost three months > of GDP per capita in South Africa, and more than 16 months of GDP per > capita in Vietnam. This is equivalent to charging a single-user license > fee in the U.S. of $7,541 and $48,011 respectively. > > http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5951509.html > -------------------------------------- > > Regards, > Johel >
From: Geoff Schaller on 17 Nov 2005 19:46 Johel, > terms of relative purchasing power. The price of Microsoft's Windows XP > and Office XP on Amazon.com in the U.S. is equal to almost three months > of GDP per capita in South Africa, and more than 16 months of GDP per > capita in Vietnam. This is equivalent to charging a single-user license > fee in the U.S. of $7,541 and $48,011 respectively. This is a totally inappropriate comparison to make. In fact, its almost dishonest. If the person buying a computer has the resources to purchase a computer then he has the resources to purchase Office XP also. Windows XP, supplied with a new PC, is less than 15% of the cost of the PC. Office XP, purchased with the PC, is less than 35% the cost of the PC. And this assumes the latest, fastest and most capable PC. That is around $700 US. So no, it wouldn't represent the license fee equivalence you proffer. What are saying here? That the Vietnamese peasant down on the rice paddy who may not even have electricity is thinking of buying a PC but won't be able to afford MS Office? Come on... Let's keep this in perspective. Talk about individuals and businesses that have the where-with-all to buy appropriate hardware and software. Running propaganda lines along average per capita income is totally irrelevant. Geoff
From: Johel on 18 Nov 2005 05:00 Ginny, > I'm not sure I understand you, No. It's not me. It looks like you have some problems to understand software cost around the World. Try to read the article below again. Click the link, go to ZDNet and read it. ----------------------------- The results, even after software price discounts, indicated that the cost of proprietary software for developing markets is "enormous" in terms of relative purchasing power. The price of Microsoft's Windows XP and Office XP on Amazon.com in the U.S. is equal to almost three months of GDP per capita in South Africa, and more than 16 months of GDP per capita in Vietnam. This is equivalent to charging a single-user license fee in the U.S. of $7,541 and $48,011 respectively. http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5951509.html ----------------------------- > but if you want open source tools, then you > are wasting your time here. VO and Vulcan are not open source. The > developers who work on them have to be paid so they can feed their families > because they work full time on VO and Vulcan. It's not a hobby for them or > something they do in their spare time when it's raining. Ginny, please, try to _read_ the article. You really are completly wrong in your understanding.... Regards, Johel
From: Johel on 18 Nov 2005 05:23 D.J.W. van Kooten, > I think Johel means to say that VO is less (or not) affordable if it > were only sold as VOPS. I can indeed imagine that a yearly costs equal > to one good PC is not extreme compared to average cost level in North > America, Western Europe and Australia, but will be too much for many > other countries. Correct. It's really good to talk to someone who understands programming _and_ economy. > However, Grafx did not plan to stop issuing regular updates. Anyone > who would like to see an earlier release than Summer 2006 -for > whatever reason- should mail Brian as Ginny already said, and accept > that -when Brian would change his mind about the release date- it > would be a paid upgrade. I know that. But a VOPS-only purchase option (and using US standard prices!) would make Vulcan a no option. In the long term it would be financialy wise (less costly) to go from VO to C#, which costs nothing nowadays (MS-VC# Express and #Develop). Regards, Johel
From: Johel on 18 Nov 2005 06:05
Geoff, > This is a totally inappropriate comparison to make. In fact, its almost > dishonest. If the person buying a computer has the resources to purchase > a computer then he has the resources to purchase Office XP also. Windows > XP, supplied with a new PC, is less than 15% of the cost of the PC. > Office XP, purchased with the PC, is less than 35% the cost of the PC. > And this assumes the latest, fastest and most capable PC. That is around > $700 US. Not true around the World. > So no, it wouldn't represent the license fee equivalence you proffer. It's not me who said it. It's the "Licence fees and GDP per capita: The case for open source in developing countries by Rishab Aiyer Ghosh". > What are saying here? That the Vietnamese peasant down on the rice paddy > who may not even have electricity is thinking of buying a PC but won't > be able to afford MS Office? Come on... You're very wrong here. And some respect for other nations and people would be good.... > Let's keep this in perspective. Talk about individuals and businesses > that have the where-with-all to buy appropriate hardware and software. > Running propaganda lines along average per capita income is totally > irrelevant. It's not propaganda. It's very real. Read this: ------------------------------------- There is a strong case for free software (also known as open source or libre software) being deployed widely in developing countries. This paper describes three reasons in particular: free software is a skills enabling platform; it is far cheaper; and it is more adaptable to local needs. The free software development community provides an environment of intensive interactive skills development at little explicit cost, which is particularly useful for local development of skills, especially in economically disadvantaged regions. Meanwhile, the controversy over total costs of ownership (TCO) of free vs. proprietary software is not applicable to developing countries and other regions with low labour costs, where the TCO advantage lies with free software, and the share of licence fees in TCO is much higher than in (richer) high labour cost countries. The note concludes with a table comparing license fees for proprietary software against GDP per capita for 176 countries. http://firstmonday.org/issues/issue8_12/ghosh/ ------------------------------------- Anyone can put together a very advanced development and/or heavy production system nowadays using Linux + OpenOffice + (Ingres or PostgreSQL) + (Eclipse/Java or MS-VC# Express or #Develop) without spending even US$ 1 and running the developed apps on top of Java servers or DotNet. For small business there is even more options for SQL enabled RDBMSs: MS-SQL Server Express 2005, Oracle 10, DB2, MaxDB, etc... No need for MS-Windows No need for MS-Office No need for MS-VS2005 No need for MS-SQL Server There are only 3 software products where I _may_ spend my money from now on: VO, CULE and/or Vulcan. Johel |