VOPS
in [Visual Objects]
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From: Jamal on 14 Nov 2005 13:02 Ginny, We agree on the fundamental issues and I think a web page of the clear "Upgrade Policy" should be available so people can refer to it, although we know that it will not please everyone! <g> Jamal "Ginny Caughey" <ginny.caughey.online(a)wasteworks.com> wrote in message news:3trflmFu17t3U1(a)individual.net... > Jamal, > > Grafx already made it clear what their upgrade policy is. Whether some > people agree or not or consider it "fair" or not doesn't matter. As far as > I can tell, Grafx has carefully considered how they can continue keep VO > afloat financially, and giving away upgrades for free won't accomplish the > goal of funding continued development efforts. (And by the way, I consider > Vulcan.NET a critically important part of this total effort since > maintaining and enhancing it over time will be much less expensive for > Grafx than contining to work with the code base they got from CA.) > > -- > Ginny > > > "Jamal" <vodotnet(a)REMOVETHIS-YAHOO.COM> wrote in message > news:OnVdf.20614$rc7.8571(a)fe12.lga... >> Geoff, >> >> While I agree that you're a very valuable resource and at sometimes have >> provoking ideas and thus you should not be censored, I still think that >> you have brought on yourself for not obeying some basic rules, and things >> went out of control to a distracting level and then ended between Geoff >> on one side and the other members on the other side. At times, you >> seemed to be acting as the owner of VO (from past observations made by >> this NG users and VOPS), and it might be because you like VO so much ;) I >> am sure you heard and know the saying "The road to hell is paved with >> good intentions". >> Having said that, for the sake of VO and Vulcan, I think GrafX should >> make it clear what their "fair" upgrade policy is or will be and to clear >> the confusion, which hopefully will make the majority happy. >> >> Jamal >> >> "Geoff Schaller" <geoffxx(a)softxxwareobjectives.com.au> wrote in message >> news:4377caa2$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au... >>> Marc, >>> >>> If you think about it, the "geoff's" are not so different. When we are >>> face to face you and I can look one another in the eye and say our >>> piece, argue politely and then if we still disagree, we just part >>> company still friends. We don't have to agree on everything and I >>> suspect we never will. That's OK. >>> >>> For some reason here (and maybe because we cannot look 'eye-to-eye') >>> people seem to take things on a very personal level and then resort to >>> silly personal attacks. Further, I don't think they really try to read >>> the post or listen to someone try to qualify their writing if >>> challenged. I don't resort to silly attacks but I will comment strongly. >>> That's me. If the other side of the equation does not want to continue >>> arguing then they should say their piece and be done. Everyone else is >>> free to ignore. >>> >>> Now look back at my position over the range of posts in the last 48 hrs. >>> You would be entitled to draw the following conclusions: >>> >>> 1. I believe in a VOPS or something like it for VO's future. >>> 2. I believe Vulcan is necessary for VO's future >>> 3. I think Vulcan has been going great guns. >>> >>> At no stage have I spoken against VOPS or Vulcan yet that might not be >>> the conclusion you would draw reading other people's posts. I do however >>> have the following additional attitudes: >>> >>> 1. I am unhappy with the VO32 support being given by GrafXSoft >>> 2. I am unhappy with the lack of information from GrafXSoft >>> 3. I now believe there are better models for the VOPS. >>> 4. I am uncomfortable with the attitude to bug fixes. >>> 5. I am unhappy that Brian can and does now discriminate on who can pay >>> for fixes and upgrades to their VO version via the VOPS. >>> 6. I have not asked anything it is not reasonable to ask. >>> >>> In the Microsoft world there are whole forums dedicated to complaining >>> about Microsoft. These are sponsored by Microsoft and Microsoft seems >>> entirely happy to live with it and deal with it. That is a mature >>> approach but it is a maturity that seems to escape Brian. >>> >>> It's a pity. >>> >>> Geoff >>> >>> >> >> > >
From: Will Chapman on 14 Nov 2005 13:00 Geoff Schaller wrote: > > In the Microsoft world there are whole forums dedicated to complaining > about Microsoft. These are sponsored by Microsoft and Microsoft seems > entirely happy to live with it and deal with it. What a good idea....Grafx set up a Knock Grafx ng and then all of this bitching can be diverted to that ng and we can all get back to benefitting from a more positive attitude again on this ng. On a more serious note, it's a shame that we don't have enough control of this ng to split it into two branches Technical/Chat. > That is a mature > approach but it is a maturity that seems to escape Brian. > So you see Geoff , despite your protestations to the contrary, you do make personal judgments about people...... - Cheers....... Will Chapman
From: Will Chapman on 14 Nov 2005 13:03 @je wrote: > :-) Nice ideas, why no access to the NG, I have never doen anything > wrong have I? > Ed The only thing you did wrong Ed was not to tell Geoff to button his lip.. but be careful, sme of the comments you have been making recently on this group group suggest that the particular strain of foot & mouth disease that Geoff suffers from may be catching........ -- Cheers....... Will Chapman nb Quidditch
From: Ginny Caughey on 14 Nov 2005 13:28 Jamal, I think if I were running Grafx (and all of us like telling Brian how to run Grafx from time to time <g>) I'd even consider only selling VO and Vulcan with an included VOPS-type service. That's what I do with my customers and it's a win-win scenario that makes everybody happy. My competitors all do the same, and it makes sense for a small company. -- Ginny "Jamal" <vodotnet(a)REMOVETHIS-YAHOO.COM> wrote in message news:Wi4ef.14182$oP5.11217(a)fe09.lga... > Ginny, > > We agree on the fundamental issues and I think a web page of the clear > "Upgrade Policy" should be available so people can refer to it, although > we know that it will not please everyone! <g> > > Jamal > > > "Ginny Caughey" <ginny.caughey.online(a)wasteworks.com> wrote in message > news:3trflmFu17t3U1(a)individual.net... >> Jamal, >> >> Grafx already made it clear what their upgrade policy is. Whether some >> people agree or not or consider it "fair" or not doesn't matter. As far >> as I can tell, Grafx has carefully considered how they can continue keep >> VO afloat financially, and giving away upgrades for free won't accomplish >> the goal of funding continued development efforts. (And by the way, I >> consider Vulcan.NET a critically important part of this total effort >> since maintaining and enhancing it over time will be much less expensive >> for Grafx than contining to work with the code base they got from CA.) >> >> -- >> Ginny >> >> >> "Jamal" <vodotnet(a)REMOVETHIS-YAHOO.COM> wrote in message >> news:OnVdf.20614$rc7.8571(a)fe12.lga... >>> Geoff, >>> >>> While I agree that you're a very valuable resource and at sometimes have >>> provoking ideas and thus you should not be censored, I still think that >>> you have brought on yourself for not obeying some basic rules, and >>> things went out of control to a distracting level and then ended between >>> Geoff on one side and the other members on the other side. At times, >>> you seemed to be acting as the owner of VO (from past observations made >>> by this NG users and VOPS), and it might be because you like VO so much >>> ;) I am sure you heard and know the saying "The road to hell is paved >>> with good intentions". >>> Having said that, for the sake of VO and Vulcan, I think GrafX should >>> make it clear what their "fair" upgrade policy is or will be and to >>> clear the confusion, which hopefully will make the majority happy. >>> >>> Jamal >>> >>> "Geoff Schaller" <geoffxx(a)softxxwareobjectives.com.au> wrote in message >>> news:4377caa2$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au... >>>> Marc, >>>> >>>> If you think about it, the "geoff's" are not so different. When we are >>>> face to face you and I can look one another in the eye and say our >>>> piece, argue politely and then if we still disagree, we just part >>>> company still friends. We don't have to agree on everything and I >>>> suspect we never will. That's OK. >>>> >>>> For some reason here (and maybe because we cannot look 'eye-to-eye') >>>> people seem to take things on a very personal level and then resort to >>>> silly personal attacks. Further, I don't think they really try to read >>>> the post or listen to someone try to qualify their writing if >>>> challenged. I don't resort to silly attacks but I will comment >>>> strongly. That's me. If the other side of the equation does not want to >>>> continue arguing then they should say their piece and be done. Everyone >>>> else is free to ignore. >>>> >>>> Now look back at my position over the range of posts in the last 48 >>>> hrs. You would be entitled to draw the following conclusions: >>>> >>>> 1. I believe in a VOPS or something like it for VO's future. >>>> 2. I believe Vulcan is necessary for VO's future >>>> 3. I think Vulcan has been going great guns. >>>> >>>> At no stage have I spoken against VOPS or Vulcan yet that might not be >>>> the conclusion you would draw reading other people's posts. I do >>>> however have the following additional attitudes: >>>> >>>> 1. I am unhappy with the VO32 support being given by GrafXSoft >>>> 2. I am unhappy with the lack of information from GrafXSoft >>>> 3. I now believe there are better models for the VOPS. >>>> 4. I am uncomfortable with the attitude to bug fixes. >>>> 5. I am unhappy that Brian can and does now discriminate on who can pay >>>> for fixes and upgrades to their VO version via the VOPS. >>>> 6. I have not asked anything it is not reasonable to ask. >>>> >>>> In the Microsoft world there are whole forums dedicated to complaining >>>> about Microsoft. These are sponsored by Microsoft and Microsoft seems >>>> entirely happy to live with it and deal with it. That is a mature >>>> approach but it is a maturity that seems to escape Brian. >>>> >>>> It's a pity. >>>> >>>> Geoff >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >
From: Geoff Schaller on 14 Nov 2005 15:49
Will, It's a shame you don't have anything serious yourself to add. If you can't see that 'criticism' in the right quarters is entirely healthy and that it can be controlled and might even be of benefit then I wonder how you ever find out from your customers how to improve your products. Perhaps you don't care? Geoff "Will Chapman" <nbquidditchjunk(a)dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message news:u-WdnQ0VqJUtTOXenZ2dnUVZ8qednZ2d(a)pipex.net: > Geoff Schaller wrote: > > > > > > In the Microsoft world there are whole forums dedicated to complaining > > about Microsoft. These are sponsored by Microsoft and Microsoft seems > > entirely happy to live with it and deal with it. > > > What a good idea....Grafx set up a Knock Grafx ng and then all of this > bitching can be diverted to that ng and we can all get back to benefitting > from a more positive attitude again on this ng. > > On a more serious note, it's a shame that we don't have enough control of > this ng to split it into two branches Technical/Chat. > > > > That is a mature > > approach but it is a maturity that seems to escape Brian. > > > > So you see Geoff , despite your protestations to the contrary, > you do make personal judgments about people...... > - > Cheers....... > > > Will Chapman |