giffgaff = con-con
in [UK Mobile]
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From: Martin Jay on 16 Mar 2010 20:07 On 16 Mar 2010 23:38:01 +0000 (GMT), Theo Markettos <theom+news(a)chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote: >But is there no audit trail for the subscribing text? It appears not. Look at the response I received from giffgaff: "This look like the customer is subscribed to a text service that charges him �5 a text on return for a service." If there was an audit trail I would have expected the response to include when and how I "subscribed" to the service, rather than their 'tough luck' response. What I didn't mention in my original article is that they closed the ticket. >Or can someone sign up to premium rate texts in some other >way than using the phone? I hope not. However, mobile customers have been charged for receiving unsolicited premium text messages ever since such services were launched, so it seems unlikely there are any checks and balances in the system. I note someone started another thread in uk.telecom.mobile about a similar matter less than an hour before I did. -- Martin Jay Back the Ban: <http://www.backtheban.com/> League Against Cruel Sports: <http://www.league.org.uk/>
From: andy on 16 Mar 2010 21:42 On 17 Mar, 00:07, Martin Jay <mar...(a)spam-free.org.uk> wrote: > On 16 Mar 2010 23:38:01 +0000 (GMT), Theo Markettos > > <theom+n...(a)chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote: > >But is there no audit trail for the subscribing text? > > It appears not. Look at the response I received from giffgaff: > > "This look like the customer is subscribed to a text service that > charges him £5 a text on return for a service." > > If there was an audit trail I would have expected the response to > include when and how I "subscribed" to the service, rather than their > 'tough luck' response. > > What I didn't mention in my original article is that they closed the > ticket. > > >Or can someone sign up to premium rate texts in some other > >way than using the phone? > > I hope not. However, mobile customers have been charged for receiving > unsolicited premium text messages ever since such services were > launched, so it seems unlikely there are any checks and balances in > the system. > > I note someone started another thread in uk.telecom.mobile about a > similar matter less than an hour before I did. Stop accusing giffgaff of complicity in theft, when neither they nor any other network have no way at all of directly knowing whether you actually subscribed or not Complain to the service provider, which you can find by looking up the number, and get a refund from them And report them (the message provider) to Ofcom, or phonepayplus, or whoever you can manage to ge to listenb
From: Steve Terry on 16 Mar 2010 21:50 "Theo Markettos" <theom+news(a)chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message news:jcl*wwa6s(a)news.chiark.greenend.org.uk... > Steve Terry <gfourwwk(a)tesco.net> wrote: >> "Martin Jay" <martin(a)spam-free.org.uk> wrote in message >> news:807.1268777125.20100316(a)spam-free.org.uk... >> > And there should be an explicit and traceable opt in process for >> > reverse charge premium rate text message services. >> > >> That would end reverse SMS as hardly anyone would opt in. >> I like the idea > > But is there no audit trail for the subscribing text? If they claim you > sent 'Scores ManU' to 81234 they should have a log of when this was sent, > including all the metadata? Or can someone sign up to premium rate texts > in > some other way than using the phone? > > It shouldn't be too difficult to produce this log in case of dispute. > Though > I suppose you might have to get into crypto to prove whether the log > entry was actually sent from your SIM or if the network made it up. > Theo > > It's always been possible to fake SMS headers Steve Terry -- Get a free Three 3pay Sim with �2 bonus after �10 top up http://freeagent.three.co.uk/stand/view/id/5276
From: Steve Terry on 16 Mar 2010 21:54 "andy" <andy.ggrps(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message news:486e64a1-b658-4b03-961f-7e09e9bc0531(a)u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com... On 17 Mar, 00:07, Martin Jay <mar...(a)spam-free.org.uk> wrote: > On 16 Mar 2010 23:38:01 +0000 (GMT), Theo Markettos > > <theom+n...(a)chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote: > >But is there no audit trail for the subscribing text? > > It appears not. Look at the response I received from giffgaff: > > "This look like the customer is subscribed to a text service that > charges him �5 a text on return for a service." > > If there was an audit trail I would have expected the response to > include when and how I "subscribed" to the service, rather than their > 'tough luck' response. > > What I didn't mention in my original article is that they closed the > ticket. > > >Or can someone sign up to premium rate texts in some other > >way than using the phone? > >> I hope not. However, mobile customers have been charged for receiving >> unsolicited premium text messages ever since such services were >> launched, so it seems unlikely there are any checks and balances in >> the system. >> >> I note someone started another thread in uk.telecom.mobile about a >> similar matter less than an hour before I did. > >Stop accusing giffgaff of complicity in theft, when neither they nor >any other network have no way at all of directly knowing whether you >actually subscribed or not > > Sounds to me like that's the definition of complicity in theft It's the duty of the bill maker to know if their charges are correct Steve Terry -- Get a free Three 3pay Sim with �2 bonus after �10 top up http://freeagent.three.co.uk/stand/view/id/5276
From: Martin Jay on 17 Mar 2010 04:52
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:42:47 -0700 (PDT), andy <andy.ggrps(a)googlemail.com> wrote: >Stop accusing giffgaff of complicity in theft... But that's exactly what it is. >...when neither they nor any other network have no way at all of >directly knowing whether you actually subscribed or not That's what the mobile networks and their resellers have brainwashed customers into believing. However, the contract exists between con-con giffgaff and myself. It is their responsibility to ensure that all charges are accurate and to investigate any that are disputed. >Complain to the service provider, which you can find by looking up the >number, and get a refund from them I have complained. I have complained to the company that charged me: con-con giffgaff. It's not up to me go running around begging for a refund from a third party I have no relationship with. -- Martin Jay Back the Ban: <http://www.backtheban.com/> League Against Cruel Sports: <http://www.league.org.uk/> |