ls has stopped using the ISO date format
in [Debian]
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From: Ron Johnson on 30 May 2010 22:30 On 05/30/2010 06:21 PM, Brian Marshall wrote: > On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 01:51:14AM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote: >> -rwx------ 1 amp amp 891837 2010-05-03 22:55 03052010065.jpg >> -rwx------ 1 amp amp 733361 2010-05-03 22:55 03052010066.jpg >> >> Can you tell if these files were created 5th march or 3rd may? How (I'd >> really like to know)? > > I've never heard of a yyyy-dd-mm format. All the other formats usually > put the year at the end, and if they don't, they're probably using > slashes or something else instead of hyphens. That's sufficient to > distinguish the ISO format from the rest, I think. > DD-AAA-YYYY is common in the US Navy. It sucks, though, as a collating format. -- Dissent is patriotic, remember? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4C031DCF.90703(a)cox.net
From: Camaleón on 31 May 2010 02:40 On Mon, 31 May 2010 01:51:14 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote: > On Sun,30.May.10, 18:05:43, Camaleón wrote: (...) >> This way I have to think *less* to be sure about the date. No guessing. > > You example shows only dates where it is quite obvious what date format > is used. Let me see... > > -rwx------ 1 amp amp 891837 2010-05-03 22:55 03052010065.jpg > -rwx------ 1 amp amp 733361 2010-05-03 22:55 03052010066.jpg > > Can you tell if these files were created 5th march or 3rd may? How (I'd > really like to know)? You got it :-) That can only be read as "3rd May, 2010". And that is precisely the gain of the ISO date format over the rest of the other alternatives: nodoby has to ask -or guess- "what your locale is" in order to correctly interpret the date you are showing because is always fixed ("year-month-day" notation). Humans have to learn many things from computers. Mainly, "logic". Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.05.31.06.39.14(a)gmail.com
From: Andrei Popescu on 31 May 2010 05:10 On Lu, 31 mai 10, 06:39:15, Camaleón wrote: > > > > -rwx------ 1 amp amp 891837 2010-05-03 22:55 03052010065.jpg > > -rwx------ 1 amp amp 733361 2010-05-03 22:55 03052010066.jpg > > > > Can you tell if these files were created 5th march or 3rd may? How (I'd > > really like to know)? > > You got it :-) > > That can only be read as "3rd May, 2010". > > And that is precisely the gain of the ISO date format over the rest of > the other alternatives: nodoby has to ask -or guess- "what your locale > is" in order to correctly interpret the date you are showing because is > always fixed ("year-month-day" notation). Sorry, but I mean, if I'm an ignorant about date formats (which many computer users are), but happen to know that computers often use some format where month comes before day (american style) it is not at all obvious. And there is nothing to guess about dd mmm yyyy, worst case I just don't understand the mmm string because it's in the wrong language. Regards, Andrei, devil's advocate of the day :) -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
From: Camaleón on 31 May 2010 05:40 On Mon, 31 May 2010 12:07:54 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote: > On Lu, 31 mai 10, 06:39:15, Camaleón wrote: > >> And that is precisely the gain of the ISO date format over the rest of >> the other alternatives: nodoby has to ask -or guess- "what your locale >> is" in order to correctly interpret the date you are showing because is >> always fixed ("year-month-day" notation). > > Sorry, but I mean, if I'm an ignorant about date formats (which many > computer users are), but happen to know that computers often use some > format where month comes before day (american style) it is not at all > obvious. Yes, I'm (being in a European country) in your same boat. Some of us use day-month-year format, but other countries have their own way to put the date and is confusing enough. Worst is that, inside my company, there are people still using just two digits for the year, something like "31/05/10" (it reads 31st May, 2010). Woow, sir, for sure is confusing (I ask them, "hey, what will happen in year 3010? >:-)") and that is the reason I prefer to use a standardized format even does not match the usual form I was used to. Besides, I also tend to name the files and folders as "2010-05-31_filename" and so on, they keep my mind (and my computer) in a very well organized fit :-) > And there is nothing to guess about dd mmm yyyy, worst case I just don't > understand the mmm string because it's in the wrong language. That is what I hate those fancy representations of date in the manner of "31st May, 2010". Numbers are "universal" (no translation needed) and pretty much easier and quicker to read than any other word written in English, Spanish or Romanian :-) But DD-MM-YYYY format does not match for any logical point of view (maybe it has for a human POV but humans lack logic). "Year" has to come first because is more important value than the day. When you take a wide timeframe, you find that "day" becomes useless. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.05.31.09.38.32(a)gmail.com
From: Nate Bargmann on 31 May 2010 08:40
* On 2010 31 May 04:39 -0500, Camale�n wrote: > Worst is that, inside my company, there are people still using just two > digits for the year, something like "31/05/10" (it reads 31st May, 2010). > Woow, sir, for sure is confusing (I ask them, "hey, what will happen in > year 3010? >:-)") and that is the reason I prefer to use a standardized > format even does not match the usual form I was used to. No need to wait that long. 2110 will come along soon enough to make two digit year notation ambiguous again. The good thing about this thread is that it caused me to reaquaint myself with various ls options I'd forgotten. - Nate >> -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100531122556.GC2442(a)n0nb.us |