Dave's difficulties with manual activities
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From: David Kastrup on 11 Sep 2009 11:33 "John Thingstad" <jpthing(a)online.no> writes: > P� Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:11:19 +0200, skrev Dave Searles > <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk>: > >> John Thingstad wrote: >>> P� Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:03:39 +0200, skrev Dave Searles >>> <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk>: >>> This drivel [rest deleted unread] >> >> I will take that as your conceding that you still don't have a >> logical argument against what I've said. > > The reason would be that it easier to write a whole new editor than > change it in the manner you suggested. > There is some 1000 modes that require things to work the way they do > now. If you were to, say, remove the minibuffer which you seem to > hate, it breaks everything. I don't see that. I doubt there is much code at all that works with the minibuffer explicitly. If you wanted everything to go to popups or separate windows or whatever, almost no code except that specifically implementing the minibuffer should be affected. But I have not seen an understandable gain, not even a sensible proposal in that regard. > Similarly C-C is bound to made specific commands. So changing it > wrecks havoc with all mode specific commands. Yes. -- David Kastrup
From: Dave Searles on 13 Sep 2009 05:11 Turgut Durduran wrote: > On 2009-09-11, Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> wrote: >> Turgut Durduran wrote: >>> On 2009-09-10, Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> wrote: >>>> Turgut Durduran wrote: >>>>> I think the latter because he can fire up emacs and use it like anything >>>>> else given that his example is to write a letter to his granny. >>>> Clearly false; as soon as an attempt is made to use the clipboard, if >>>> not sooner, it will all go pear-shaped. >>> No. >> Yes. As soon as the user hits control-C, control-X, shift-ins, or >> something, it will do something surprising and dismaying. > > No. Yes. Maybe not something YOU would find surprising and dismaying were it to occur as a result of your typing those keys, but something THEY certainly will. >> If they have >> something important in the clipboard and use the mouse to select >> something (perhaps to replace with the clipboard contents using paste), >> the clipboard contents will, surprisingly and dismayingly, get >> clobbered. They will trip over various emacs idiosyncrasies, guaranteed. > > It will work like the standard (*). It will not; see above. And if they make a selection with the mouse it will clobber the clipboard. And cross-app copy and paste won't act as expected (either not worky, or requiring different keys, or requiring some unintuitive option toggling somewhere, or whatnot).
From: Dave Searles on 13 Sep 2009 05:15 Alan Mackenzie wrote: > In comp.emacs Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> wrote: >> Andrea Crotti wrote: > >>> I still don't get why so much anger against emacs, are you maybe >>> forced to use it? > >> Anger? What anger? The only anger I have is some anger at people feeling >> they can't address my arguments logically and consequently resorting to >> personal attacks. > > Consider the possibility that there's something about your posts that > provokes these alleged "personal attacks". Yes -- the fact that my arguments are beyond their capability to assail with reason, yet they feel compelled to assail them *somehow*, regardless. >> I don't like being badmouthed, and I doubly don't like being badmouthed >> in public. > > Yet in this thread you have yourself badmouthed. I have badmouthed software, not human beings. >> But I do try to remain rational and not stoop to that level myself in >> my rebuttals. > > [more personal attacks] Oh, blow it out your USB port. The juvenile level of debating tactics some of you are fond of is SOOOO tiresome to adults like myself. > A normal human convention is that people listen to each other > respectfully, and learn from each other. You haven't been > doing this in this thread. Sure I have. But you don't want to listen to, or learn from, me. That much is clear every time I rebut one of your claims and you respond by merely repeating it or with personal attacks instead of manning up and admitting that I'm right. > [more personal attacks] Finger-pointing, fault-finding, name-calling, and mud-slinging will not magically make the problems I've pointed out in the emacs user interface go away.
From: Dave Searles on 13 Sep 2009 05:16 Turgut Durduran wrote: > On 2009-09-11, Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> wrote: >> Turgut Durduran wrote: >>> On 2009-09-10, Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> wrote: >>>> David Kastrup wrote: >>>>> The current state of Emacs is such that you can pretty much work with it >>>>> without putting in learning time. >>>> Clearly false; the first time you go to cut, copy, or paste anything, it >>>> will blow up in your face. >>> No it won't. >> Yes it will. As soon as someone hits C-c or C-x, kaboom! > > Why would I hit those? You, perhaps, would not. A normal computer user attempting to use emacs as a normal text editor on the other hand would.
From: Turgut Durduran on 13 Sep 2009 05:17
On 2009-09-13, Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> wrote: > Turgut Durduran wrote: >> On 2009-09-11, Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> wrote: >>> Turgut Durduran wrote: >>>> On 2009-09-10, Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> wrote: >>>>> Turgut Durduran wrote: >>>>>> I think the latter because he can fire up emacs and use it like anything >>>>>> else given that his example is to write a letter to his granny. >>>>> Clearly false; as soon as an attempt is made to use the clipboard, if >>>>> not sooner, it will all go pear-shaped. >>>> No. >>> Yes. As soon as the user hits control-C, control-X, shift-ins, or >>> something, it will do something surprising and dismaying. >> >> No. > > Yes. Maybe not something YOU would find surprising and dismaying were it > to occur as a result of your typing those keys, but something THEY > certainly will. > >>> If they have >>> something important in the clipboard and use the mouse to select >>> something (perhaps to replace with the clipboard contents using paste), >>> the clipboard contents will, surprisingly and dismayingly, get >>> clobbered. They will trip over various emacs idiosyncrasies, guaranteed. >> >> It will work like the standard (*). > > It will not; see above. And if they make a selection with the mouse it > will clobber the clipboard. And cross-app copy and paste won't act as > expected (either not worky, or requiring different keys, or requiring > some unintuitive option toggling somewhere, or whatnot). Well, read the (*) that you cut off. It works like the standard. Specially the keyboard. ugdc |