Dave's difficulties with manual activities
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From: Dave Searles on 11 Sep 2009 00:11 Turgut Durduran wrote: > On 2009-09-10, Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> wrote: >>>> It is not true. >>> OK. Somehow, I had a feeling it wasn't. >> And yet either it must be, or the claim that emacs has some kind of >> multi-clipboard with history must have been a lie. >> >> Either way, a claim that one of you made is a lie. >> >> Checkmate. > > Excellent. Eh? You just *lost*. Are you barvy?
From: Dave Searles on 11 Sep 2009 00:11 John Thingstad wrote: > På Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:03:39 +0200, skrev Dave Searles > <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk>: > > This drivel [rest deleted unread] I will take that as your conceding that you still don't have a logical argument against what I've said.
From: Dave Searles on 11 Sep 2009 00:14 Turgut Durduran wrote: > On 2009-09-10, Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> wrote: >>> What you say is, in its own terms, true, but we don't accept these terms. >> Tough. Objective ones are the only terms I'm offering. > > "objective"? I never seen you give the list of standards or a methodology > to judge them. Then perhaps you ought to reread the thread. >> I made no basic assumptions. I used reason and empirical data to draw my >> conclusions. (One such piece of data is the relative market shares of >> applications with idiosyncratic interfaces and applications that adhere >> to interface standards.) > > Shall we divide by the amount of money spent on marketing ? Irrelevant. You could spend the entire TARP bailout on emacs marketing and get maybe three additional users, given the abysmal state of its user interface at present, and the fact that it even looks like a dinosaur. I've run Windows 3.11 for Workgroups applications that looked more modern. >> Any key sequence is the equal of any other key sequence that's no >> longer, so the only way they can be "essential to emacs" in a way that >> is damaged by simply moving one or two of them away from keys like >> control-C that are supposed to do something else is if it is "essential >> to emacs" that users struggle with its interface and have problems with >> simple actions like cut, copy, and paste. > > Why should I use non-standard things like control-C in my text-editor > when it matches how everything else works? Huh? Control-C for copy is quite standard. Text editors that bind control-C to copy comprise 99.99%+ of the text-editor market share. It doesn't get much more defacto standard than that. As for dejure, there's a written CUA standards document out there somewhere.
From: Dave Searles on 11 Sep 2009 00:20 Alan Mackenzie wrote: > In comp.lang.lisp Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> wrote: >> Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>> In comp.lang.lisp Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> wrote: >>>> Alan Mackenzie wrote: > >>> What you say is, in its own terms, true, but we don't accept these terms. > >> Tough. Objective ones are the only terms I'm offering. > >>> We disagree with your basic assumptions. > >> I made no basic assumptions. I used reason and empirical data to draw my >> conclusions. > > Without some starting assumptions, logic is vacuous and syllogistic, and > can't lead to any meaningful conclusions. If by "starting assumptions" you intend to include evidence, established facts, and empirical data. If you mean, then, to say that you disagree with evidence, established facts, and empirical data, well, I really don't know what else to say in that case, other than that clearly yours is a religious crusade rather than based in anything resembling reason and empiricism. If you mean to say you disagree with actual assumptions, i.e. not evidence, established facts, and empirical data, then I reiterate: I used none. I used only evidence, established facts, and empirical data. >>> We disagree that "standard" is always better than "intrinsically good". > >> I disagree with your faith-based proclamation that emacs is >> "intrinsically good". > > Well it's based on experience, not faith It's based on a lifetime of using only emacs. That's not experience, that's bias. > but the fact it's got a substantial enthusiastic following is good > evidence for its intrinsic goodness. Don't be ridiculous. Radium watches had a substantial enthusiastic following in the 50s. So did thalidomide. In the 30s it was Nazism. >>> [calls me a liar] > > [calls me a liar some more] I will take that as your conceding that you still don't have a logical argument against what I've said. > you disregard normal standards of polite and decent behavour I do not. Look in the mirror -- you're the ones who keep posting "you X" and "you Y" at other people when you disagree with them, while I refrain from name-calling and engage in reasoned, civil debate. Or at least try to. > and you post the same thing again, and again and again, > well past the point of tedium. So do you. I only repeat myself if you repeat yourself and I find I have exactly the same thing to say in response to it as the previous time you'd said it. > [numerous personal attacks snipped] I will take that as your conceding that you still don't have a logical argument against what I've said.
From: Evan I on 11 Sep 2009 00:23
Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> writes: > Turgut Durduran wrote: >> On 2009-09-10, Dave Searles <searles(a)hoombah.nurt.bt.uk> wrote: >>> Turgut Durduran wrote: >>>> I think the latter because he can fire up emacs and use it like >>>> anything else given that his example is to write a letter to his >>>> granny. >>> Clearly false; as soon as an attempt is made to use the clipboard, >>> if not sooner, it will all go pear-shaped. >> >> No. > > Yes. As soon as the user hits control-C, control-X, shift-ins, or > something, it will do something surprising and dismaying. If they have > something important in the clipboard and use the mouse to select > something (perhaps to replace with the clipboard contents using > paste), the clipboard contents will, surprisingly and dismayingly, get > clobbered. They will trip over various emacs idiosyncrasies, > guaranteed. I can't believe nobody has pointed out the obvious. http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/download/beginner.el Place above file in ~/.elisp/ enter these commands into your posix shell while in your home directory: echo '(add-to-list 'load-path (expand-file-name "~/.elisp"))' >> ~/.emacs; echo '(require 'beginner)' >> ~/.emacs; Problem solved. If you find any issues with this solution, please use your mad lisp skillz to correct beginner.el to give you the behavior desired. I am sure the emacs using grandmas of the world will appreciatte your contribution. --tali713 |