Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Smiler on 7 Jul 2008 22:46 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:772d7da1-8773-470f-ba9b-3ba9ae7f84ea(a)m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... On Jul 6, 8:21 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > On Jul 6, 11:54 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 2:31 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > On Jul 5, 2:42 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>> On Jul 4, 3:22 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>> On Jul 3, 11:28 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>> On Jul 3, 1:55 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 8:35 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 2:03 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 11:59 pm, BuddyThunder > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:04 pm, BuddyThunder > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 12:20 am, BuddyThunder > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 1:19?pm, Enkidu > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <fox_rgf...(a)trashmail.net> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:22183802-cf28-4305-af11- > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7d254b106...(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are the one being deliberately obtuse. ? The > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence of the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnel validates many other things said in the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bible about the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assyrian invasion of Judea. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Hobbit" talks of ale, axes, and forests > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which we know exist. Does that > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> validate Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, trolls, magic > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rings, walking trees and Tom > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bombadil? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enkidu AA#2165 ? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EAC Chaplain and ordained minister, > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ULC, Modesto, CA > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't anything socialistic make you want to > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throw up? Like great public > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schools, or health insurance for all? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ? ? ?-Kurt Vonnegut > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you decide for yourself? You were the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one who thought of > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you try to defend your assertions? How > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can we know we can > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trust what you say?- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It does not matter to me what you trust. You decide > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you are > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to trust. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can't provide any sensible reason to believe > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your fanciful > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claims, then I guess we're done.- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fanciful claims? I said that the Jews dug a tunnel as > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a conduit for > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> water between Gihon spring and the pool of Siloam. Why > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do you think > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is a fanciful claim? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is not a fanciful claim. You and I both know that > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm referring to > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your supernatural claims. Those would be the ones > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're completely > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unable to support with any evidence.- Hide quoted > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> text - > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not made any claims to atheists except that the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jews dug a > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnel to be used as a conduit for water, and the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Assyrians built a > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ramp out of dirt to get over the city wall at Lachish. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To an atheist > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> these might seem like supernatural claims because there > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> were actually > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> people working to accomplish both of these tasks instead > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> of just > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> giving orders, criticism, etc., the way atheists do. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Since atheists > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> have been unable to visualize these two events, there is > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> no reason to > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> proceed on to anything more complex. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Then we're in total agreement. A tunnel was dug a long > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> time ago and it > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> got mentioned in some ancient writings, providing > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> absolutlely no support > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> for any supernatural claims. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> So why all the posts?- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>>>> You do not seem to be visualizing it very well. The > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Assyrians came > > > >>>>>>>>>>> into Judea with an army of hundreds of thousands on their > > > >>>>>>>>>>> way home > > > >>>>>>>>>>> after taking a big chunk of Egypt. Judea was a little dot > > > >>>>>>>>>>> in the > > > >>>>>>>>>>> middle of the Assyrian kingdom, which extended from the > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Caspian Sea to > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Egypt. So why was there still a Kingdom of Judea when King > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Sennacherib got back to his capitol city of Ninevah? > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Sennacherib > > > >>>>>>>>>>> himself says there was on the column he had erected in > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Ninevah. > > > >>>>>>>>>> Or so the story goes.- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>> What do you mean so the story goes? The column erected by > > > >>>>>>>>> Sennacherib > > > >>>>>>>>> in Ninevah is still there today. He plainly says on it that > > > >>>>>>>>> Hezekiah > > > >>>>>>>>> paid tribute to him, and he was such a nice guy that he just > > > >>>>>>>>> went home > > > >>>>>>>>> after he got the money. > > > >>>>>>>> Great. Sennacherib went home and left Jerusalem unsacked. > > > >>>>>>>> That doesn't > > > >>>>>>>> mean that it was due to the angel of the lord slaughtering > > > >>>>>>>> 185,000 > > > >>>>>>>> troops in a night. > > > >>>>>>>> Why do you favour the oddly magical Biblical account over > > > >>>>>>>> Sennacherib's?- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > >>>>>>> 186,000 troops. Chaldean historians of the same time said that > > > >>>>>>> the > > > >>>>>>> Assyrian army died of plague while besieging Jerusalem, and > > > >>>>>>> Sennacherib fled in great fear back to his own city of > > > >>>>>>> Ninevah. > > > >>>>>>> Sennacherib made no mention of losing his army on the column > > > >>>>>>> he > > > >>>>>>> erected. He seems to have pretended to his fellow Assyrians > > > >>>>>>> that the > > > >>>>>>> army was still somewhere doing something, but his own two sons > > > >>>>>>> murdered him, probably because they were upset about him > > > >>>>>>> losing the > > > >>>>>>> army. > > > >>>>>> So where are God's footprints in all of this? Arguments for > > > >>>>>> both sides > > > >>>>>> can be made without invoking magic.- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > >>>>> Well, from a military standpoint, the Jews had no chance > > > >>>>> whatsoever > > > >>>>> against the Assyrians. But when it was all over, it was the > > > >>>>> Assyrian > > > >>>>> king who lost everything, including his own life. So I would > > > >>>>> say, let > > > >>>>> atheists of today explain it their way, and let Christians > > > >>>>> explain it > > > >>>>> their way. The Jews explained it by saying that an angel of the > > > >>>>> Lord > > > >>>>> killed 186,000 Assyrian troops. That is a matter of record. It > > > >>>>> is > > > >>>>> recorded in three different books of the Old Testament. > > > >>>> The Old Testament isn't particularly compelling evidence, it > > > >>>> suggests > > > >>>> that there was a global flood and special creation over the > > > >>>> course of > > > >>>> six days. It might be a "matter of record" on some things, but it > > > >>>> is > > > >>>> definitely not on others.- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > > > >>> Well, I am sure the Jews feel bad that you do not like the Old > > > >>> Testament, but it says what it says. It says in three different > > > >>> books that an angel of the Lord went through the camp of the > > > >>> Assyrians > > > >>> and slew 186,000 soldiers. > > > >> It also says that the universe was created a handful of thousands > > > >> of > > > >> years ago. The Bible is not reliable.- Hide quoted text - > > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > > Well, as I said before, you atheists believe in relativity of time > > > > unless you are talking about the earth. Then you insist on absolute > > > > time. > > > > Instead you make some ridiculous claims about the relativity of time > > > completely without evidential basis, or... any rational support at > > > all. > > > The Earth is older than 6500 thousand years old. Much older. I'll go > > > with the many independent lines of verification on that one.- Hide > > > quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Well, that is fine, but why is relativity of time something that > > exists except when talking about the earth? > > Robert B. Winn > > It's not. All time is relative to a frame of reference, but the > effects of time dilation are very well understood and calculable. > Meaning we can correct for dilation due to the earth's movement, if we > wanted partial second accuracy. To have significant effects on time, > like you are inferring, objects need to move at speeds close to the > speed of light relative to each other. > > Al- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The planet Mercury was the first thing used as a proof of the theorry of relativity, and its velocity is 30 miles per second. At the velocity of the planet Mercury, my own equations agree with the Lorentz equations to about six decimal places.The Galilean transformation equations with absolute time agree to just one or two. Where the Lorentz equations fall apart is their need for a distance contraction, which then causes the moving object to disappear at the speed of light. ---------------------------------------- Duh! An object moving away from us at the speed of light would emit light towards us at zero speed (+C -C = 0) So it would *appear* to be invisible...disappeared...not there. We wouldn't be able to see it. I'm no physicist, but this seems obvious to me. Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279
From: Steve O on 7 Jul 2008 22:48 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:34d67171-ca01-49d5-959b-6707b4732323(a)w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com... > > Well, atheists kill most of their children by abortion. If any are > allowed to live, they have pre-programmed lives. > Robert B. Winn You have already been told to stop making inaccurate stupid, misguided and bigoted statements like this, but you still continue to do so. Why is that? -- Steve O a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter) B.A.A.W.A. Convicted by Earthquack Exempt from purgatory by papal indulgence
From: rbwinn on 7 Jul 2008 22:48 On Jul 7, 4:31�am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > > > Since we know that when human die, every thing is gone. > > The body decays and the consciousness disappear too. Nothing, except > > memory and children, stay. > > This is the human cycle and you are blind to it? > > As I have said before, lots of human like you are greedy, they want to > > be eternal. But an imaginary eternal heaven is for their god/gods, and > > not for human. > > Why are you always wanting to equate heaven for human, when it is > > supposed to be the home for god/gods? What sane sense do you have? > > The point is, that people who have nothing to lose except their lives, > are not controllable politically. If you give them something to lose > beyond that - their immortal souls - and tell them if they go against > the particular political institution you put in place to control them as > slaves - the church, they will lose even that, �then they may just be > stupid enough to go along with the fiction. > > Christianity offers two things to slaves: It makes them feel self > important, and it tells them that if they are good little slaves, they > will be equal to the highest in the land - possibly more than equal. > > Cui Bono? > > The slavemasters and priests, of course. > > Robbo is just a good little member of the Church of Latter Day Slaves, > that's all. > > The thought that he is an unimportant person, and will always be that > way, and that no one, not even God, actually gives a toss about him, and > once he is dead they will care even less, is so unappealing to his ego, > that he cannot bear to even consider the possibility it is true. It > takes great courage to be an Atheist, courage and humility. Robbo has > neither. > > All he has is his Faith. Remove that and he has nothing. So what are you saying, that you are a better person than I am? Robert B. Winn
From: Smiler on 7 Jul 2008 22:51 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:f9d59ee2-d57a-4eba-88f7-d25aa22f33b5(a)34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... On Jul 6, 8:14?pm, Enkidu <fox_rgf...(a)trashmail.net> wrote: > rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in news:6ccd4537-241a-4536-af04- > b31a6faec...(a)x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com: > > > Well, why don't you go ahead and believe what you want to believe, and > > I will believe what I believe. ?Does that seem unfair to you? > > Robert B. Winn > > If you were honest, you'd leave alt.atheism. But you won't. > > -- > Enkidu AA#2165 ? > EAC Chaplain and ordained minister, > ULC, Modesto, CA > > It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been > searching for evidence which could support this. > ? ? ? ? ? -- Bertrand Russell Just ----------------------------- Ho! <whack> Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279
From: rbwinn on 7 Jul 2008 22:54
On Jul 7, 9:00�am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:57e16449-1aee-4fc5-9bf6-f16f8970ac2b(a)b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > > > Show me an atheist who wants to enter heaven, and I will answer your > > questions. �Otherwise, they are totally meaningless. �It is like you > > coming up to me on the street and saying, �I do not like you, and I > > will never enter your house, but I want to know everything you do. �If > > you do not want to enter, it is none of your business. > > Robert B. Winn > > When you insist that your house is the only way a house should be, and that > our house is somehow evil and wrong, �and demand tax concessions on your > house, and call at our house asking us to change it to look like your house, > and tell ridiculous and impossible lies about how our house was built , and > dictate what type of house our children should grow up in by using > legislation, then it IS our business. > > -- > Steve O Baloney, this is a democracy. If there are more evil people, which there are, then evil people run the government, which they do. What is it that you evil people want that you do not have? Robert B. Winn |