Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: BuddyThunder on 21 Jun 2008 01:30 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 20, 3:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jun 20, 5:44�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>> news:91aff9de-ef71-4690-8e27-742500d48b32(a)b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... >>>> Well, you atheists have some strange ideas. �Your problem is that all >>>> you have is talk. �We have the Bible. >>>> ============= >>>> OK then, different tack. >>>> What do you have? >>>> What is the Bible? >>>> What makes up the Bible? >>>> Who decided what is and is not part of the Bible? >>>> Even if you believe, how can you TRUST a collection of documents that were >>>> transcribed from oral tradition, that have been edited, redacted, translated >>>> from previous translations, whose components were added or omitted according >>>> to pervailing theological fashion over several millennia? >>> Well, in the church I belong to, we do it because we have further >>> revelation on the same subject. >> The golden plates?- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > No, we do not have the golden plates. Yes, I know. I was asking if that was the further revelation you rather mysteriously referred to?
From: rbwinn on 21 Jun 2008 02:10 On Jun 20, 3:13�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> The Petrine epistles were not written by the fisherman character Peter.. > >> Those epistles were written at the end of the second century CE or > >> beginning of the third century CE. �The Greek in the Petrine epistles is > >> very refined. �It would be like reading Benjamin Franklin's Poor Richards > >> Almanac with references to Gandalf, Frodo, trains and planes. > > > Well, you atheists have some strange ideas. �Your problem is that all > > you have is talk. �We have the Bible. > > How do you think that handicaps us? I'm very happy to accept honest > inquiry over ancient myth.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The only thing you ever talk about is the Bible. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 21 Jun 2008 02:13 On Jun 20, 3:39 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 19, 12:02�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > > >> <snip> > > >>>>>>>> Says the believer in a magic sky fairy that magically inseminated a virgin > >>>>>>>> so that she could magically remain a virgin and magically produce his magic > >>>>>>>> son who went on to do magic tricks, like magically turning water into wine, > >>>>>>>> magically walking on water and and magically feeding 5000 people with the > >>>>>>>> scantest of supplies. This magic son, although supposedly dead, magically > >>>>>>>> came back to life and then magically disappeared. All evidence, outside of > >>>>>>>> the of the only book supposedly describing these magical happenings, > >>>>>>>> magically disappeared. This believer apparently also believes that a magic > >>>>>>>> angel magically came to earth with a magic set of golden disks and gave them > >>>>>>>> to a well known fraudster to magically translate into English and then, > >>>>>>>> magically, the disks disappeared. This believer also talks to the magic sky > >>>>>>>> beings to magically get them to work their magic in his favour. Does he also > >>>>>>>> wear magic underwear...curious minds and all that. > >>>>>>>> And I haven't even started on the OT, yet. > >>>>>>>> Smiler, > >>>>>>>> The godless one > >>>>>>>> a.a.# 2279- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> You haven't started on anything. > >>>>>> This is a scant rebuttal. How is he wrong?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>> I did not spend any great amount of time studying his statement. �As > >>>>> far as I could tell there was nothing true in it. > >>>> This seems to read like "I don't like it, so I won't accept/believe it". > >>>> What specifically rings false about it? I'd like to know how you assess > >>>> statements for truth.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> The entire thing was false as far as I could tell. �What was there in > >>> it that you thought was true? > >> Your religion believes that Jesus was born of a virgin? Jesus reportedly > >> turned water into wine.... There are no known natural mechanisms by > >> which these things could happen, hence the characterisation as magic. > >> Should I go on? > > >> You haven't been able to tell me how you assay for truth, maybe you > >> don't know yourself? There's no shame in that, a lot of people don't > >> think about these things.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > I do not worry about mysteries like that.  Whatever their explanation, > > they will not save any souls.  The atonement of Christ is what > > Christians need to understand. > > What if your religious leaders are lying to you? Maybe it's not > deliberate, maybe they're just deluded. Could you tell? > > I would feel totally unarmed to make sensible decisions about the world > without a rational and questioning nature.- Hide quoted text - > Well, no doubt it is difficult for you. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 21 Jun 2008 02:24 On Jun 20, 4:22 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 20, 3:35 am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > > wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >> > On Jun 19, 8:22 am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >> > wrote: > >> >> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> > On Jun 18, 3:50 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> >> > On Jun 18, 10:11�am, Darrell Stec > >> >> >> > <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> >> >> > On Jun 17, 2:53�am, Darrell Stec > >> >> >> >> > <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > > >> >> >> >> >> > Well, I analyzed the Bible. �What I find is that God would > >> >> >> >> >> > not want His children to die and just cease to be or to be > >> >> >> >> >> > punished forever, so He sent his Son to overcome death. > >> >> >> >> >> > �Because of wickedness, we see today that most people will > >> >> >> >> >> > reject God's gift of eternal life. Robert B. Winn > > >> >> >> >> >> Let me ask you a question. �Who would know more about LDS > >> >> >> >> >> theology, one of the churches twelve apostles, or a Hari > >> >> >> >> >> Krishna monk> > > >> >> >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> >> > Who do you think would know more about LDS theology? �Why do > >> >> >> >> > you ask? Robert B. Winn > > >> >> >> >> Evasion noted. �Why are you afraid to answer a couple of easy > >> >> >> >> questions? Why do you think I would ask? �Could it be the answer > >> >> >> >> might be obvious? > > >> >> >> > Well, if the answer is obvious, then there was no reason to ask > >> >> >> > the question.  Go ahead and say whatever you were going to say. > >> >> >> > Robert B. Winn > > >> >> >> Why are you afraid to tell us whether or not one of the 12 apostles > >> >> >> of the Mormon church would know more about LDS theology than an > >> >> >> Hari Krishna monk? What are you afraid of?  I know the answer, but > >> >> >> I don't know if you do and that is why I am asking. > > >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> Later, > >> >> >> Darrell Stec    dars...(a)neo.rr.com > > >> >> > Well, why don't you just make up your own mind about that? > >> >> > Robert B. Winn > > >> >> I already have made an informed and knowledgeable opinion.  I am > >> >> trying to find out what you believe (asking what you think would be > >> >> unfair because you are shooting without bullets) to be the case.  Why > >> >> are you afraid to answer the question?  Is it because it has never > >> >> been discussed in bible school and you have nothing to copy and paste? > >> >>  Go ask your bishop what he thinks, as you allow others to think for > >> >> you until you pull stupid things out of thin air. > > >> >> -- > >> > Well, why don't you ask my bishop yourself? > > >> What is his name, email address, physical address and phone number and I > >> will ask him.  I'll also send him a list of your more insane postings. > > >> > I told you athiests > >> > before that I was not going to be your researcher. > > >> What research do you need to do to answer a question as to whether an > >> apostle of your church's council of twelve would know more about LDS > >> philosophy than a Hari Krishna monk?  That is a person opinion.  Or do > >> you mean that nobody told you what to think in regard to the question so > >> you can't copy and paste it? > > >> > If you want to know what I believe,I can give you name to the > >> > missionaries as a referral , and they can tell you what I beleive. > > >> Why can't you give us your opinion yourself?  Why are you having so many > >> problems answering an easy question?  What are you afraid of? > > >> > Robert B. Winn > > > Well, the General Authorities of our church have counseled us to avoid > > contention with other churches.  So if you have some bone to pick with > > the Hare Kirshna church, leave me out of it. > > Robert B. Winn > > Why are you avoiding the question?  Why is it so difficult for you to answer > the question?  It is a simple one.  Whom do you think knows more about LDS > theology, one of the twelve apostles making up the council of the LDS > church or a Hari Krishna monk?  What are you afraid of.  Certainly there is > no injunction in your church against answering the question.  Why are you > avoiding it? > I am not avoiding it. You said the answer is obvious, so obviously, you already know the answer. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 21 Jun 2008 02:26
On Jun 20, 4:37 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 20, 2:40 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 20, 5:34 am, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 19, 5:55 am, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> Well, go ahead and talk about God, but I can tell you ahead of time, > >>>>>>> you do not know anything about God. No atheist does. > >>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>> nahh...we'll discus what we want...you choose your fiction...and > >>>>>> that's all you have been expressing faith in..nothing else...and we'll > >>>>>> point out our fiction...and we won't base a worldview on our inability > >>>>>> to deal with reality like you do....Don't like it? Pray for > >>>>>> us...otherwise..tough... > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the > >>>>>> question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it > >>>>>> right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is > >>>>>> neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells one > >>>>>> it is right. > >>>>>> Martin Luther king Jr.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Well, people would do better if they learned to do their own praying. > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>> Thinking is preferred by everyone else here..it actually does > >>>> something... > >>> Well, so you think that you can destroy Christianity. That was what > >>> this conversation was about when it began. That was why I was > >>> pointing out that the Bible was the best selling book in the world. > >>> Not so, said atheists. Harry Potter is the best selling book in the > >>> world. > >> That's a bit melodramatic, isn't it? I'm just interested in your beliefs > >> and how they're rationalised. Destroying Christianity is a ridiculous > >> aspiration, you'd constantly be disappointed!- Hide quoted text - > > > So why do atheists have schools teaching that Christianity is false? > > If they do not have the aspiration, why are they trying to do it? > > Do we? What schools? What fresh hell is this?!- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Public schools. Robert B. Winn |