Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Smiler on 20 Jun 2008 21:24 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:b3f38615-2ef2-416d-b5c8-dd1b4b0c7a19(a)w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com... On Jun 20, 3:16 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 18, 11:28 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 18, 3:59?pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 17, 5:34?pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > >>>>> Well, Al, we have the ideas of atheists living today , and we have > >>>>> the > >>>>> writings of the apostles. > >>>> I hate to break this to you, but there is not one apostle for which > >>>> we have > >>>> any writings. ?None of the New Testament books (except for the > >>>> Pauline > >>>> epistles) have any names associated with them. ?And in fact the > >>>> earliest > >>>> manuscripts did not have the names of the biblical books in them. ?It > >>>> is > >>>> apparent that the titles were added by a second or third copier > >>>> because the > >>>> lettering is not in the hand of the first and oldest scribe. > >>>>> Who should I believe? ?This is really a > >>>>> tough one. > >>>> It isn't a tough one at all. ?Your first statement is false. ?So YOU > >>>> are not > >>>> to believed because you wallow in ignorance. > >>>>> Well, I think I will believe the apostles. > >>>> How will you do that? ?They wrote nothing. > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>> Let's see, Matthew was an apostle, John was an apostle, Peter was an > >>> apostle, James was an apostle, Paul was an apostle, then there are > >>> writings of some people who were just disciples. All of these people > >>> seem more believable to me than you do Darrell. Maybe it is just your > >>> attitude. > >> What is your standard for assessment? You often say X "seems more > >> reliable" than Y. You apparently distrust the honest inquiry of subject > >> matter experts, so from that position of ignorance, how do you arrive > >> at > >> the correct alternative?- Hide quoted text - > > > Well, that does not really matter, as long as I get to the correct > > alternative. At any rate, Darrell has quite a story to tell, but, > > just like Harry Pottrer, none of it is true. > > That's my point, you've got no reliable way of evaluating which IS the > correct alternative. > > Can you say how Darrell is wrong rather than simply issuing a denial?- > Hide quoted text - > Darrell claims that there were no synagogues at the time of the life of Christ. According to him, the gospels had to have been written after 200 A.D. because atheists of today have said that no synagogues existed before that time. It is easy to see that Darrell and his atheist authorities are wrong about this because of the writings of Luke and Paul, who were Christian missionaries sent to Asia Minor. Whenever Luke and Paul went to a city in Asia Minor where they had not been before they always went to the Jewish synagogue. So if there were no synagogues at the time of Christ, why were there synagogues all over Asia Minor just after he was crucified? --------------------------------------------- Because the stories attributed to Luke and Paul were not written 'soon after' your supposed jesus was supposed to have died. They were written at least a hundred years after that supposed event. By that time, there were synagogues all over Asia Minor. The writers didn't know that the synagogues were a recent introduction. Your reply will, of course, be to either accuse me of lying or to change the subject completely. I expect no reasoned rebuttal from you. Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279
From: Smiler on 20 Jun 2008 21:29 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:59e0bfb8-0c73-48d3-839e-ba612d7024ae(a)l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com... On Jun 20, 3:18 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 19, 8:18 am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > > wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 18, 3:59?pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 17, 5:34?pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > >>>>> Well, Al, we have the ideas of atheists living today , and we have > >>>>> the > >>>>> writings of the apostles. > >>>> I hate to break this to you, but there is not one apostle for which > >>>> we > >>>> have any writings. ?None of the New Testament books (except for the > >>>> Pauline epistles) have any names associated with them. ?And in fact > >>>> the > >>>> earliest manuscripts did not have the names of the biblical books in > >>>> them. ?It is apparent that the titles were added by a second or third > >>>> copier because the lettering is not in the hand of the first and > >>>> oldest > >>>> scribe. > >>>>> Who should I believe? ?This is really a > >>>>> tough one. > >>>> It isn't a tough one at all. ?Your first statement is false. ?So YOU > >>>> are > >>>> not to believed because you wallow in ignorance. > >>>>> Well, I think I will believe the apostles. > >>>> How will you do that? ?They wrote nothing. > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>> Let's see, Matthew was an apostle, John was an apostle, Peter was an > >>> apostle, James was an apostle, Paul was an apostle, > >> Paul was not an apostle. He never met Joshua but rather made up his > >> theology using Hellenistic philosophy from the Greek classics, Hebrew > >> theology from the Old Testament, and epileptically induced > >> hallucinations > >> of imagined conversations with god the father. He even admits to that. > >> In > >> fact he goes further and says he learned nothing from any man. That > >> means > >> he never had any conversation with any apostle, nor any other human > >> that > >> either met the apostles or Joshua. It was not until he wrote a couple > >> of > >> epistles and was well into his ministry by several years that he met > >> James > >> and Peter. > > >> So far you have named four out of twelve apostles. That is a grade of > >> 33 > >> and 1/3 percent a solid 'F' if you were to give such sloppy results > >> while > >> attending seminary. Can't you open up a bible and type what you see > >> about > >> the named apostles? > > >>> then there are > >>> writings of some people who were just disciples. > >> What writings were those? We have no writings from any apostle nor any > >> disciple concerning Joshua. As you have been told, and as you can find > >> out > >> by looking at perfect facsimiles of the earliest manuscripts and > >> bibles, > >> there were no names attached to the books of the New Testament until > >> the > >> second or third copyists. And none of the authors name themselves in > >> the > >> books themselves. > > >>> All of these people > >>> seem more believable to me than you do Darrell. Maybe it is just your > >>> attitude. > >> Mine and the attitude of honest Christian scholars of higher biblical > >> criticism. In fact prefaces in many versions of the bible say the same > >> thing. > > >> But all you have is a knowledgeless opinion based solely on faith. > > >>> Robert B. Winn > > Well, that bodes well for me. James says in his epistle, Without > > faith it is impossible to please God. > > Okay. Faith is fine for you, but I can't follow you there. Lots of > people have faith in many different religious beliefs. That doesn't show > me which of them is correct, if any of them at all.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, you seem to have faith in Spiderman and Harry Potter. -------------------------------------- I have no faith in your comprehension skills. Smiler, The godless one
From: rbwinn on 20 Jun 2008 21:31 On Jun 20, 3:40 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 19, 12:06�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > > >> <snip> > > >>> Well, what you are saying is that the Biblical account of the Assyrian > >>> invasion of Judea is fiction. �What part of it do you claim is > >>> fiction? �So far we have discussed the earthen ramp and Hezekiah's > >>> tunnel. �Are you still claiming that those are fiction? > >> You're still claiming London doesn't exist, huh? > > >> I don't know either account, so really don't have an opinion. Have you > >> considered that maybe neither account is accurate? If pressed, I would > >> go with the explanation with the best evidential support. I don't have a > >> reason to decide at this point. > > >> Happy to be agnostic on something! > > > OK, well, my opinion is that unless an atheist has an opinion about > > Hezekiah's tunnel and the earthen ramp, it is a waste of time to try > > to discuss the Bible with that person. > > Wow, why would you say that? It's a minor Biblical detail. > > They exist, is that opinion enough?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, any person who will not admit that someing exists which can be seen is not going to admit the existence of things which cannot be seen. So conversation with atheists is totally unprofitable. Robert B. Winn
From: Smiler on 20 Jun 2008 21:35 "BuddyThunder" <nospam(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in message news:485c2e3d$1(a)clear.net.nz... > rbwinn wrote: >> On Jun 18, 11:45 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>> rbwinn wrote: >>>> On Jun 18, 12:13?pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:87b0e53d-5a57-49b1-b3d0-a331560793fb(a)c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> On Jun 17, 10:37 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:d6db0a86-413e-4057-a2cf-40363e9b8a34(a)a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>> Well some people might not be convinced by your video footage. >>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>> are many people who believe that the Apollo moon landings were >>>>>>>> faked. >>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>> It's not my fault if other people have mental health problems or are >>>>>>> gullible enough to swallow any wild- assed claim they come across. >>>>>>> Anyway, if my video footage is insufficient evidence, what makes >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> 2,000 >>>>>>> year old book o' blood and that silly Mormon bible more convincing? >>>>>> Well, you atheists did not do very well with regard to the Assyrian >>>>>> invasion of Judea. >>>>> I can assure you we had absolutely nothing to do with it. >>>>>> The Bible seems to have its facts a lot straighter >>>>>> than you atheists do. >>>>> There are very few facts in the bible at all. >>>>> It is a magic story based around real (and sometimes non- existent ) >>>>> locations. >>>>>> Was there some other specific thing that you >>>>>> atheists wanted to discuss? >>>>> How about your inability to differentiate fantasy from reality? >>>> I think I do fairly well. Hezekiah's tunnel is real. The earthen >>>> ramp over the city wall at Lachish is real. Harry Potter is not real. >>> Ah, but London is! Is the Bible? It may be, we haven't refuted anything >>> yet. But your logic is not supportive of your claims.- Hide quoted >>> text - >>> >>> - Show quoted text - >> >> I actually know a man from London, England. I make doors and window >> frames for him sometimes. He soes not believe in Harry Potter either. > > Then how can you logically deny that London even exists?! You ask him for LOGIC!?!?!?!? When have you ever seen him use any logic? Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279
From: rbwinn on 20 Jun 2008 21:36
On Jun 20, 3:58 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 19, 7:48�am, Ye Old One <use...(a)mcsuk.net> wrote: > >> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 04:56:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> enriched this group when s/he wrote: > > >>> On Jun 18, 6:01?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:29:16 -0700 (PDT), "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA > >>>> Al)" <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>> On Jun 19, 8:19 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>>> On Jun 18, 12:10 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> ... > >>>>>>> You say all this on the basis of absolutely no evidence. > >>>>>> OK, so once again you are saying that the earthen ramp and Hezekiah's > >>>>>> tunnel do not exist because there is no evidence of the Assyrian > >>>>>> invasion of Judea. ?Well, what about the pillar in Ninevah with > >>>>>> Sennacherib's account? ?Are you saying that does not exist also? > >>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>> Do you ever stay on topic? ?Have you finished accusing people of > >>>>> saying things they didn't? > >>>> Isn't it amazing how completely dishonest he is in his reading of what > >>>> others say? > >>> The topic was the Assyrian invasion of Judea. �An atheist said there > >>> was absolutely no evidence of this topic. > >> Who? When? > > >>> I was saying there was. > >> But little of it matches up with the characters of the fictionalized > >> biblical version. > > >>> Robert B. Winn > >> -- > >> Bob.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > The Biblical version is obviously the true one. > > Obviously how?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, I have gone through that several times, so I see no reason to do it again. Robert B. Winn |