Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 21 Jun 2008 08:58 On Jun 21, 4:00 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 20, 3:22 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 18, 6:23 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> Steve O wrote: > >>>>> "asilentskeptic" <asilentskep...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > >>>>>news:0cd8677a-e3af-4244-9680-0f635809616d(a)i18g2000prn.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>> On Jun 18, 12:14 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>news:c44cff96-90ef-45f4-badc-413fcf95321e(a)m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com.... > >>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 10:41�am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>news:f8121cc3-37c1-4561-b7cc-b6292578b7f1(a)34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>> All atheists I talk to indicate to me that if they do not have a > >>>>>>>>>> written record of something, then it did not exist, and if the > >>>>>>>>>> written > >>>>>>>>>> record is the Bible, then it still did not exist. > >>>>>>>>> Liar. > >>>>>>>>> We have simply told you on many occasions that the magical events > >>>>>>>>> which > >>>>>>>>> were > >>>>>>>>> supposed to have taken place in your Bible are uncorroborated by any > >>>>>>>>> other > >>>>>>>>> source. > >>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, all you can do is bleat about ramps and conduits, which > >>>>>>>>> offer > >>>>>>>>> no > >>>>>>>>> proof at all that the supposed magical events actually happened, or > >>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> main characters depicted in the book actually existed. > >>>>>>>>> You are either incapable of listening, or unwilling to listen. > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Hey, you atheists thought Harry Potter was going to make the tunnels > >>>>>>>> and ramps disappear. > >>>>>>> We did no such thing. > >>>>>>> You simply offered that as a straw man argument to disguise your weak > >>>>>>> position. > >>>>>> I was going to keep up a discussion with the guy, but he either > >>>>>> doesn't grasp what you are saying, misinterprets what you said, or > >>>>>> goes off on some completely strange tangent that has no basis (or some > >>>>>> strange mind-warping basis) in what he is replying to. Not worth the > >>>>>> time or the effort. > >>>>> I had him pegged as a Loki, but Loki atheists don't normally insult other > >>>>> atheists directly while they're trying to make theists look stupid. > >>>> He is definitely a theist, a Mormon in fact who has had mental problems > >>>> (still does) and is now off his meds. > >>>> -- > >>> Well, I know a great deal more about it than you do.  What you refer > >>> to as meds is a drug called torazine which causes people to feel as > >>> though they are smothering 24 hours a day.  Atheists want laws passed > >>> requiring that any person who will not accept atheism to be given this > >>> drug or some similar tranquilizer.  I was fortunate to have such > >>> severe side effects from the drug that people in medical science after > >>> observing that I could not walk for a few months would become > >>> concerned and stop giving me the drug, not because they had any > >>> concern for me, but because they were worried they might get sued for > >>> malpractice.  By that time I had learned to never discuss anything > >>> with psychiatrists except malpractice lawyers. > >> I am sorry for your illness, mental health should never be taken for > >> granted. > > >> But why beat up that strawman demonisation of atheists, what has it done > >> to you?- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > There was no illness.  I was in good health.  The only problem I had > > was that I was put subject to atheistic administration by the > > signatures of two medical doctors and a judge. > > Sorry about your negative experiences then, but "atheistic > administration"? It does sound a little crazy.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - What would you call it? They did not allow prayer, scriptures, etc. Patients were forced to take tranquilizer drugs or injected with them if they refused. It was the atheistic idea of heaven. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 21 Jun 2008 09:01 On Jun 21, 4:03 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 20, 3:25 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 18, 11:45 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 18, 12:13�pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>news:87b0e53d-5a57-49b1-b3d0-a331560793fb(a)c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>> On Jun 17, 10:37 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>news:d6db0a86-413e-4057-a2cf-40363e9b8a34(a)a1g2000hsb.googlegroups..com... > >>>>>>>>> Well some people might not be convinced by your video footage. There > >>>>>>>>> are many people who believe that the Apollo moon landings were faked. > >>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>> It's not my fault if other people have mental health problems or are > >>>>>>>> gullible enough to swallow any wild- assed claim they come across. > >>>>>>>> Anyway, if my video footage is insufficient evidence, what makes your > >>>>>>>> 2,000 > >>>>>>>> year old book o' blood and that silly Mormon bible more convincing? > >>>>>>> Well, you atheists did not do very well with regard to the Assyrian > >>>>>>> invasion of Judea. > >>>>>> I can assure you we had absolutely nothing to do with it. > >>>>>>> The Bible seems to have its facts a lot straighter > >>>>>>> than you atheists do. > >>>>>> There are very few facts in the bible at all. > >>>>>> It is a magic story based around real (and sometimes non- existent ) > >>>>>> locations. > >>>>>>> Was there some other specific thing that you > >>>>>>> atheists wanted to discuss? > >>>>>> How about your inability to differentiate fantasy from reality? > >>>>> I think I do fairly well.  Hezekiah's tunnel is real.  The earthen > >>>>> ramp over the city wall at Lachish is real.  Harry Potter is not real. > >>>> Ah, but London is! Is the Bible? It may be, we haven't refuted anything > >>>> yet. But your logic is not supportive of your claims.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> I actually know a man from London, England.  I make doors and window > >>> frames for him sometimes.  He soes not believe in Harry Potter either. > >> Then how can you logically deny that London even exists?!- Hide quoted text - > > > Actually Harry Potter is what does not exist.  I know this will come > > as a shock to the atheist community. > > It's your logic, you defend it!- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - It does not need defended. Harry Potter either exists or he does not. You are free to believe he exists if that is what you want to do. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 21 Jun 2008 08:59 On Jun 21, 4:01 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 20, 3:24 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 18, 11:42 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 18, 4:45 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>news:21d2e037-7498-4d49-bb95-5a308e107d58(a)j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>> On Jun 18, 12:14 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>news:c44cff96-90ef-45f4-badc-413fcf95321e(a)m36g2000hse.googlegroups..com... > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 10:41�am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>>news:f8121cc3-37c1-4561-b7cc-b6292578b7f1(a)34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>>> All atheists I talk to indicate to me that if they do not have a > >>>>>>>>>>> written record of something, then it did not exist, and if the > >>>>>>>>>>> written > >>>>>>>>>>> record is the Bible, then it still did not exist. > >>>>>>>>>> Liar. > >>>>>>>>>> We have simply told you on many occasions that the magical events > >>>>>>>>>> which > >>>>>>>>>> were > >>>>>>>>>> supposed to have taken place in your Bible are uncorroborated by any > >>>>>>>>>> other > >>>>>>>>>> source. > >>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, all you can do is bleat about ramps and conduits, which > >>>>>>>>>> offer > >>>>>>>>>> no > >>>>>>>>>> proof at all that the supposed magical events actually happened, or > >>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> main characters depicted in the book actually existed. > >>>>>>>>>> You are either incapable of listening, or unwilling to listen. > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> Hey, you atheists thought Harry Potter was going to make the tunnels > >>>>>>>>> and ramps disappear. > >>>>>>>> We did no such thing. > >>>>>>>> You simply offered that as a straw man argument to disguise your weak > >>>>>>>> position. > >>>>>>> I was not arguing about anything.  If you atheists want to believe in > >>>>>>> Harry Potter, go ahead and believe in him.  I just said that there was > >>>>>>> a tunnel between Gihon spring and the Pool of Siloam, exactly the way > >>>>>>> three books of the Old Testament say there is, and there is an earthen > >>>>>>> ramp over the city wall at the ruins of Lachish.  You want to be cute > >>>>>>> about it, so go ahead and be cute. > >>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>> Now explain why the existence of this tunnel and ramp and the fact that they > >>>>>> are mentioned in the bible is evidence that the rest of the magic story is > >>>>>> real. > >>>>> So what you would have me believe is that there are only two things > >>>>> mentioned in the Bible that are real, an earthen ramp and a conduit > >>>>> for water.  I think that there are other things mentioned in the Bible > >>>>> that are real. > >>>> I'm sure there are other things that are true in the Bible, but they > >>>> require independent verification before we'll know. > >>>> As you well know, London exists just as decribed in Harry Potter, but > >>>> that's no reason to accept flying broomsticks. Flying broomsticks would > >>>> require independent evidence. We don't have any. So there's no > >>>> compelling reason to believe in it. > >>>> Jerusalem exists, just as described in the Bible, but that's no reason > >>>> to accept a six-literal-day creation. A six day creation would require > >>>> independent evidence. We don't have any. We have overwhelming evidence > >>>> for an old earth. So there's no compelling reason to believe in a young > >>>> earth.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Well, you atheists insist on relativity of time except in one > >>> circumstance, the creation of the earth.  When it comes to dinosaurs, > >>> you insist on absolute time, just like Isaac Newton. > >> You think that a 6000 year old planet that looks 4.5 billion years old > >> can be accounted for by the theory of relativity? Could you explain the > >> mechanism in layman's terms? I'm not an expert.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Well, as I said, you atheists do not want relativity of time applied > > to this particular thing, which the Bible does in more than one > > place.  There are two definitions of time at the present, only one of > > which scientists will discuss, what they call local time or scientific > > time.  This is defined by a certain number of transition of a cesium > > isotope molecule.  Then Einstein's theory shows that if a cesium > > isotope molecule is moving relative to another cesium isotope > > molecule, then the time of its transitions will be slower than the > > transitions of the molecule that is not moving.  So time is relative, > > except when scientists are talking about dinosaurs or the time of the > > planet earth. > > Where can I read the peer-reviewed publication of this fascinating new > theory? That's quite something, you should write it up if no-one has, > it's Nobel Prize material!- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I write it up all the time in sci.physics.relativity. Robert B. Winn
From: Steve O on 21 Jun 2008 10:54 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:7400364b-46e0-4427-b422-c4439607cf7f(a)27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 21, 3:54�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >> >> >> - Show quoted text - >> >> > Well, you seem to have faith in Spiderman and Harry Potter. >> >> And you don't believe that London exists.- Hide quoted text - >> > I don't? So where does the Queen of England live? > Robert B. Winn We know where she lives. You're the one who doesn't believe in London, not us. -- Steve O a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter) B.A.A.W.A. Convicted by Earthquack "I have a miraculous picture of Jesus - if you look really closely at the face, you can see a burnt tortilla"
From: Steve O on 21 Jun 2008 10:59
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:1f62d629-c363-4da7-9dfb-e564fb275e38(a)e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 21, 4:03 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >> > On Jun 20, 3:25 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> >> rbwinn wrote: >> >>> On Jun 18, 11:45 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> >>>> rbwinn wrote: >> >>>>> On Jun 18, 12:13�pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >> >>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >>>>>>news:87b0e53d-5a57-49b1-b3d0-a331560793fb(a)c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com... >> >>>>>>> On Jun 17, 10:37 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >>>>>>>>news:d6db0a86-413e-4057-a2cf-40363e9b8a34(a)a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... >> >>>>>>>>> Well some people might not be convinced by your video footage. >> >>>>>>>>> There >> >>>>>>>>> are many people who believe that the Apollo moon landings were >> >>>>>>>>> faked. >> >>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >> >>>>>>>> It's not my fault if other people have mental health problems or >> >>>>>>>> are >> >>>>>>>> gullible enough to swallow any wild- assed claim they come >> >>>>>>>> across. >> >>>>>>>> Anyway, if my video footage is insufficient evidence, what makes >> >>>>>>>> your >> >>>>>>>> 2,000 >> >>>>>>>> year old book o' blood and that silly Mormon bible more >> >>>>>>>> convincing? >> >>>>>>> Well, you atheists did not do very well with regard to the >> >>>>>>> Assyrian >> >>>>>>> invasion of Judea. >> >>>>>> I can assure you we had absolutely nothing to do with it. >> >>>>>>> The Bible seems to have its facts a lot straighter >> >>>>>>> than you atheists do. >> >>>>>> There are very few facts in the bible at all. >> >>>>>> It is a magic story based around real (and sometimes non- >> >>>>>> existent ) >> >>>>>> locations. >> >>>>>>> Was there some other specific thing that you >> >>>>>>> atheists wanted to discuss? >> >>>>>> How about your inability to differentiate fantasy from reality? >> >>>>> I think I do fairly well. Hezekiah's tunnel is real. The earthen >> >>>>> ramp over the city wall at Lachish is real. Harry Potter is not >> >>>>> real. >> >>>> Ah, but London is! Is the Bible? It may be, we haven't refuted >> >>>> anything >> >>>> yet. But your logic is not supportive of your claims.- Hide quoted >> >>>> text - >> >>>> - Show quoted text - >> >>> I actually know a man from London, England. I make doors and window >> >>> frames for him sometimes. He soes not believe in Harry Potter either. >> >> Then how can you logically deny that London even exists?!- Hide quoted >> >> text - >> >> > Actually Harry Potter is what does not exist. I know this will come >> > as a shock to the atheist community. >> >> It's your logic, you defend it!- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > It does not need defended. Harry Potter either exists or he does > not. You are free to believe he exists if that is what you want to > do. > Robert B. Winn If you think that Harry Potter is fiction then you must also think that London doesn't exist right? You'd better tell that to all of the people who live there, it may come as a surprise to them. -- Steve O a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter) B.A.A.W.A. Convicted by Earthquack "I have a miraculous picture of Jesus - if you look really closely at the face, you can see a burnt tortilla" |