Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: DanielSan on 17 Jul 2008 08:32 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 16, 8:55 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 16, 6:06 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 15, 5:24 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 14, 8:27 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jul 14, 5:12�pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:44f19f98-4d96-4419-a87a-d6bdbd73f31b(a)c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>> Their idea is that if Hezekiah's tunnel exists, then Harry Potter has >>>>>>>>>>>>> to be true because the train station in London is mentioned in Harry >>>>>>>>>>>>> Potter. >>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly. Since we know therefore that harry potter isn't true, the fact >>>>>>>>>>>> of hezekiahs tunnel means the bible is obviously false. Since we have >>>>>>>>>>>> true facts referred to in works of complete fiction. >>>>>>>>>>>> By your reasoning at least. >>>>>>>>>>> Well, you have it exactly as atheists have been telling me it is. >>>>>>>>>>> Don't ask me what it is supposed to mean. >>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>> Here is an example of rbwinn's logic. >>>>>>>>>> Sheep are mentioned in the bible >>>>>>>>>> Sheep exist today >>>>>>>>>> The bible is accurate and there is a God >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Steve O >>>>>>>>> Well, no, Steve O. Here is an example. Atheists were claiming that >>>>>>>>> nothing existed on earth today that could prove anything in the >>>>>>>>> Bible. So I said, What about Hezekiah's tunnel? These atheists had >>>>>>>>> never heard of Hezekiah's tunnel. So after they looked it up, they >>>>>>>>> said, The fact that a tunnel exists no more proves the Bible to be >>>>>>>>> true than Harry Potter leaving from the train station in London to go >>>>>>>>> to wizard's school. >>>>>>>> The original assertion remains in force. Hezekiah's Tunnel does not >>>>>>>> prove anything. >>>>>>>>> I really believe that it certainly does prove certain verses in the >>>>>>>>> Old Testament to be true which describe the digging of Hezekiah's >>>>>>>>> tunnel. Otherwise, atheists need to explain why there is a tunnel >>>>>>>>> exactly where the Bible in three books of the Old Testament says a >>>>>>>>> tunnel was dug as a conduit for water. >>>>>>>> For the same reason that King's Cross Station exists. >>>>>>>> Wow, you REALLY aren't getting the analogy, are you? >>>>>>> There is nothing in the Book of 2 Chronicles about the construction of >>>>>>> King's Cross Station. >>>>>> Wow, you REALLY aren't getting the analogy, are you? >>>>>> -- >>>>> Well, if you can provide a description of the construction of Kings >>>>> Cross station from the time it was built, maybe we could compare it to >>>>> the Biblical account of the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel. >>>> ....I see. So, since the Harry Potter books do not detail the >>>> construction of King's Cross Station, it's not a correct analogy? >>>> Okay, fine. In one of the Harry Potter books, the head of the Ministry >>>> of Magic visits the new Prime Minister of England and informs him of the >>>> fight against the Dark Lord. >>>> Since this Harry Potter book describes the Prime Minister of England at >>>> the time that he got into office and, since it coincided with Tony Blair >>>> getting into office, that means that Harry Potter is true? >>>> -- >>>> ****************************************************** >>>> * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * >>> Well, if you want to believe in Harry Potter, I am sure you will find >>> a way to do it. >> No, see, that's what you're NOT getting. I don't believe in Harry >> Potter. Harry Potter is fantasy. It's not real. And the events >> therein have just as much evidence as the Bible has. >> >> That is: None. > If atheists think something is fantasy, why is fantasy all they want > to discuss? You're the one that brought fantasy into the discussion. -- ****************************************************** * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * *----------------------------------------------------* * "I distrust those people who know so well what God * * wants them to do because I notice it always * * coincides with their own desires." * * --Susan B. Anthony * ******************************************************
From: Jon Green on 17 Jul 2008 08:32 rbwinn wrote: > Atheists are the people who are trying to make the Bible disappear. > Robert B. Winn No, atheists are the people for whom the Bible is someone else's problem. You can't successfully ban religion, or force its suppression, as Communism proved conclusively. And I don't think that many atheists would want to "make the Bible disappear", as it's an historical document describing (in the OT) the oral traditions and some of the events of an historically important area of the world, and (in the NT) the background to a major world religion. Jon -- SPAM BLOCK IN USE! To reply in email, replace 'deadspam' with 'green-lines'.
From: Helgo Land on 17 Jul 2008 08:35 Jon Green schrieb: > rbwinn wrote: >> Atheists are the people who are trying to make the Bible disappear. >> Robert B. Winn > > No, atheists are the people for whom the Bible is someone else's problem. The real question is 'Does God need to exist'? ;)
From: DanielSan on 17 Jul 2008 08:36 Jon Green wrote: > rbwinn wrote: >> Atheists are the people who are trying to make the Bible disappear. >> Robert B. Winn > > No, atheists are the people for whom the Bible is someone else's problem. > > You can't successfully ban religion, or force its suppression, as > Communism proved conclusively. And I don't think that many atheists > would want to "make the Bible disappear", as it's an historical document > describing (in the OT) the oral traditions and some of the events of an > historically important area of the world, and (in the NT) the background > to a major world religion. > He's confusing atheists (those that do not believe in gods) with antitheists (those who are against religion). "We should invade [Muslim] countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." --Ann Coulter, antitheist theist -- ****************************************************** * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * *----------------------------------------------------* * "I distrust those people who know so well what God * * wants them to do because I notice it always * * coincides with their own desires." * * --Susan B. Anthony * ******************************************************
From: rbwinn on 17 Jul 2008 08:37
On Jul 17, 4:11 am, The Loan Arranger <no...(a)nowhere.invalid> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 15, 6:39�am, The Loan Arranger <no...(a)nowhere.invalid> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 14, 10:38 pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > >>>>> So are you admitting that you have sins? �This would be a first for an > >>>>> atheist. �All other atheists tell me that they do not have sins > >>>>> because whatever they do is not sin. > >>>> I have what YOU call sins. They aren't, because the concept is > >>>> meaningless. In absolute terms. > >>> Right. �Atheist Josef Stalin said the same thing when he killed 12 > >>> million people. > >> As opposed to Adolf Hitler ("I am now as before a Catholic and will > >> always remain so." - quoted in John Towland's biog). > > >> Not to mention several Popes, who were happy to ordain the > >> indiscriminate massacres of Moslems in the name of the Cross. > > >> Not to mention the Christian fundamentalist GWB (and his father), who > >> seems happy to go to war against the people of any Moslem country that > >> has the audacity not to kow-tow to his government's wishes. > > >> There is no point in claiming that atheism breeds immorality, or that > >> Christianity is the cure, because there are so many counter-examples in > >> both cases that the only conclusion any sensible person can draw is that > >> some people are good, some people are bad, and anyone can be drawn to or > >> away from religion. > > >> TLA > > > So was this John Towland an atheist? > > I have no idea, and it's not relevant anyway. He just wrote a biog of > Hitler. > > > Anyway, Hitler was a politician saying what would make him popular > > with the German people.  His actions in his life show that he did not > > believe he would be punished for sins, much like atheists of today. > > ...and any psychopath with temporal lobe epilepsy or schizophrenia who > believes that massacring groups or whole races is OK, because they've > God on their side. However, the point that you're trying to dodge, and > failing, is that as much evil is done in the name of religion, in this > case Christian religion, as is done by those with none - probably more. > If you don't find that an uncomfortable truth, you need to recalibrate > your humanity. > > TLA- Hide quoted text - > Well, I don't really see much evidence of it. Stalin and Pol Pot were both atheists. But politicians who killed large numbers of people cannot compare with the numbers of people killed by abortion, which was done by governments controlled by atheistic political factions. Robert B. Winn |