Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Antares 531 on 17 Jul 2008 10:59 On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 14:35:16 +0200, Helgo Land <members(a)nospam.com> wrote: >Jon Green schrieb: > >> rbwinn wrote: >>> Atheists are the people who are trying to make the Bible disappear. >>> Robert B. Winn >> >> No, atheists are the people for whom the Bible is someone else's problem. > >The real question is 'Does God need to exist'? ;) > Define "God." The natural laws, order and control of the multiverse? Cosmic sentience? Gordon
From: Smiler on 16 Jul 2008 19:47 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:e6ab538c-40f9-4978-9de9-b4a5f3eb015d(a)m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... On Jul 15, 11:57 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 14, 11:23 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 14, 5:12?pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>news:44f19f98-4d96-4419-a87a-d6bdbd73f31b(a)c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>> Their idea is that if Hezekiah's tunnel exists, then Harry Potter > >>>>>>> has > >>>>>>> to be true because the train station in London is mentioned in > >>>>>>> Harry > >>>>>>> Potter. > >>>>>> Exactly. Since we know therefore that harry potter isn't true, the > >>>>>> fact > >>>>>> of hezekiahs tunnel means the bible is obviously false. Since we > >>>>>> have > >>>>>> true facts referred to in works of complete fiction. > >>>>>> By your reasoning at least. > >>>>> Well, you have it exactly as atheists have been telling me it is. > >>>>> Don't ask me what it is supposed to mean. > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>> Here is an example of rbwinn's logic. > >>>> Sheep are mentioned in the bible > >>>> Sheep exist today > >>>> The bible is accurate and there is a God > >>>> -- > >>>> Steve O > >>> Well, no, Steve O. Here is an example. Atheists were claiming that > >>> nothing existed on earth today that could prove anything in the > >>> Bible. > >> And yet you've been unable to produce these mythical posts. Well, you > >> do > >> seem to like myths... > > >>> So I said, What about Hezekiah's tunnel? These atheists had > >>> never heard of Hezekiah's tunnel. So after they looked it up, they > >>> said, The fact that a tunnel exists no more proves the Bible to be > >>> true than Harry Potter leaving from the train station in London to go > >>> to wizard's school. > >> In a slightly mangled sense, yes that was me. I'd never heard of > >> Hezekiah's tunnel. Now I have. I still can't see how it supports the > >> existence of any gods. Assuming it's the same tunnel (which hasn't been > >> established AFAIK), so what? People sometimes write things about stuff. > >> Does that automatically render it true? > > >>> I really believe that it certainly does prove certain verses in the > >>> Old Testament to be true which describe the digging of Hezekiah's > >>> tunnel. Otherwise, atheists need to explain why there is a tunnel > >>> exactly where the Bible in three books of the Old Testament says a > >>> tunnel was dug as a conduit for water. > >> I might point out that the physical evidence doesn't accord well with > >> the account of the tunnel's construction. Even if you're right, it's > >> simply shows that a tunnel was built, not that gods exist. > > >> If you want to infer more than is logical from this, go for it! But to > >> maintain a degree of intellectual honesty, I cannot follow.- Hide > >> quoted text - > > > Well, obviously, you have not studied the history of that time. > > Robert B. Winn > > I haven't much, and yet I still know that. Additionally, the Bible > contains some history, but doesn't qualify as a whole. It's far too > unreliable.- Hide quoted text - > Well, I understan why atheists would want to believe Sennacherib's account of the Assyrian invasion of Judea over the Biblical account, but, obviously, Sennacherib was lying. =================================== Your evidence for that assertion is??? ======================= Chaldean historians agree with the Biblical account. Sennacherib lost his entire army at Jerusalem. ========================= So? Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279
From: Smiler on 16 Jul 2008 19:58 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:f6171404-48a8-4914-bfdd-caf1ed05ecaa(a)a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... On Jul 15, 1:18?am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > Linda Fox wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:23:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > wrote: > > >> ? I really believe that it certainly does prove certain verses in the > >> Old Testament to be true which describe the digging of Hezekiah's > >> tunnel. ?Otherwise, atheists need to explain why there is a tunnel > >> exactly where the Bible in three books of the Old Testament says a > >> tunnel was dug as a conduit for water. > > > Not all of the OT is theology - quite a fair amount of it is standard > > Jewish history, whether by aural tradition or, in the later books, > > written. As a parallel, we don't know how much of what we have from > > Homer is true of Greece and Troy, since that too is based on aural > > tradition which means it would have been embroidered, or even > > falsified, along the way. My own feeling about that is that much of > > the dynastic detail (apart from things like Helen being born out of > > Leda by Zeus as a swan) is possibly more reliable because when it was > > being passed down that was likely to have been the only kind of > > chronicle they could make; just a theory, though, and I doubt we'll > > ever know. > > > Linda ff > > surely its oral ?- as in spoken - rather than aural, as in > heard..tradition..? > > But broadly I agree. The Bible (OT) is the history, philosophy, myhology > and moral codes of a bunch of desert tribes. > > The NT is a political document written by the romans to keep the > barbarians in their place. > > With probably as much historical acccuracy as 'Conan the Barbarian'- Hide > quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The only writer of the new Testament who was a Roman citizen was Paul. ================================ All the writers were Roman citizens. Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279
From: Smiler on 16 Jul 2008 20:08 "Stan-O" <bndsna807(a)aol.com> wrote in message news:2ums74h926jfoevvk6tdfbttnm0ouc2mkb(a)4ax.com... > On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:42:35 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> > wrote: > > >>> > Well, the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel was very remarkable. But >>> > atheists do not like seeing remards about it. Why is that? >>> >>> I have nothing against the tunnel. No, what I dislike is your butchery >>> of logic.- Hide quoted text - >>> >>> - Show quoted text - >> >>Well, choose for yourself what you like or dislike. It means nothing >>to me. If you or any other atheist decides to discuss the tunnel, >>come back and do it some time without trying to change the subject to >>Harry Potter. > > Making a comparison between two pieces of literature is hardly > changing the subject. "Changing the subject" to Skippy #2, means using logic in such a way that he's unable to answer it. No different to the 'tinfoil hat' brigade or the conspiracy theorists. All loony, the lot of them. Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279
From: The Loan Arranger on 17 Jul 2008 12:01
Smiler wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > The only writer of the new Testament who was a Roman citizen was Paul. > ================================ > All the writers were Roman citizens. I'm sorry to say, Smiler, Robbie's probably right for once. Roman Citizenship was distinct from being a citizen of a country under Roman jurisdiction, and was very hard to earn. What I'm unsure about is whether he was a full Roman Citizen, or whether he held the Latin Right, which was a kind of halfway-house between non-citizenship and being a full Citizen. Ordinary people in a subjugated country probably wouldn't really appreciate the difference, or could be blinded to it. It wasn't uncommon for LR holders to claim to their peers to be RCs, to enhance their standing, but they definitely wouldn't try that to an official, at least not if they valued their life or position. TLA |