Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Alex W. on 23 Jun 2008 06:59 "Smiler" <Smiler(a)Joe.King.com> wrote in message news:zqD7k.122915$9x.72514(a)newsfe05.ams2... > > "BuddyThunder" <nospam(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in message > news:485d8a1f$1(a)clear.net.nz... >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jun 21, 8:16?am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>>> "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote in message >>>> >>>> news:6c4ja8F3erpl2U1(a)mid.individual.net... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> If you think that Harry Potter is fiction then you must also think >>>>> that >>>>> London doesn't exist right? >>>>> You'd better tell that to all of the people who live there, it may >>>>> come as >>>>> a surprise to them. >>>> Like the esteemed Mr Winn Esq, London councils have no doubt whatsoever >>>> about the existence of London. ?At least, that is what they profess >>>> when >>>> they send out council tax demands. >>> >>> Taxes. Well, that is something that should convince some atheists. >>> Taxes are something they will never deny. >> >> Are taxes evidence that any gods exist? > > Just the opposite. > Taxes are evidence that there are no such things as gods. .... unless you are a church official tasked with collecting the tithe ....
From: Kenneth Doyle on 23 Jun 2008 09:13 On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 15:10:51 -0400, Darrell Stec wrote: > Alex W. wrote: > > >> "Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message >> news:485db4ed$0$3390$4c368faf(a)roadrunner.com... >> >> >>> Idiot. An atheist does not believe in gods, or demons or supernatural >>> forces. Witches and demons cannot be atheists. >>> >>> >> Point of order: >> why should an atheist not be able to believe in ghosts, demons and >> things that go bump in the night? A non-belief in the existence of a >> god does not automatically include a denial of the supernatural per se, >> does it? > > Yes. Demons and witches (not Wiccan) are agents of a god, evil ones, > but gods nonetheless. Most demons are either former gods that have been > demoted or minor order gods. So that includes angels too. > > It is the fact of supernatural (for which there is no evidence) that > excludes the existence of a god. If god were natural then it could > possibly exist but then it could do nothing supernatural because there > would be no mechanism. Good call! The idea of a supernatural cause, for any natural event, seems to me to be a very cynical (in the modern sense) development in the evolution of human consciousness; whereas it's easy to understand why so much mythology was inspired by natural forces. I have a half-baked theory that you might find amusing. Written language is a relatively recent development. Let's round off the numbers and call it 40,000 years of consciousness to 4.000 years of written language (why not). I have no idea for exactly how long people were talking before they were writing. I read a book by a memory expert who said that the best way to remember a complicated set of facts is to make up a really stupid story that includes those facts. According to him, the more outlandish the story the easier it is to remember. Perhaps our ancestors were more pragmatic that we think, and took it for granted that their mythology was just a way to remember certain facts about when it's good to plant seed and so forth.... When written language came along, we didn't need the mnemonics anymore, but we dutifully recreated the mythology instead of just recording the facts. We've only just started to correct this mistake during the previous 400 years (give or take), so I'm feeling pretty optimistic really.
From: rbwinn on 23 Jun 2008 10:03 On Jun 22, 6:57�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > "BuddyThunder" <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in message > > news:485d8a1f$1(a)clear.net.nz... > > > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > >> On Jun 21, 8:16?am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>> "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote in message > > >>>news:6c4ja8F3erpl2U1(a)mid.individual.net... > > >>>> If you think that Harry Potter is fiction then you must also think that > >>>> London doesn't exist right? > >>>> You'd better tell that to all of the people who live there, it may come > >>>> as > >>>> a surprise to them. > >>> Like the esteemed Mr Winn Esq, London councils have no doubt whatsoever > >>> about the existence of London. ?At least, that is what they profess when > >>> they send out council tax demands. > > >> Taxes. �Well, that is something that should convince some atheists. > >> Taxes are something they will never deny. > > > Are taxes evidence that any gods exist? > > Just the opposite. > Taxes are evidence that there are no such things as gods. > > Smiler, > The godless one > a.a.# 2279- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Taxes are evidence that atheists exist. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 23 Jun 2008 10:07 On Jun 22, 7:13 pm, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 22, 10:06 am, TT <t...(a)noburn.net> wrote: > >> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:13:28 -0400, rbwinn wrote > >> (in article > >> <b632d03c-1575-41fa-8b21-2d50f3586...(a)f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>): > > >>> On Jun 21, 6:43 pm, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 20, 4:37 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 20, 2:40 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 5:34 am, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 5:55 am, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, go ahead and talk about God, but I can tell you ahead of > >>>>>>>>>>>>> time, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> you do not know anything about God. No atheist does. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>> nahh...we'll discus what we want...you choose your fiction..and > >>>>>>>>>>>> that's all you have been expressing faith in..nothing else....and > >>>>>>>>>>>> we'll > >>>>>>>>>>>> point out our fiction...and we won't base a worldview on our > >>>>>>>>>>>> inability > >>>>>>>>>>>> to deal with reality like you do....Don't like it? Pray for > >>>>>>>>>>>> us...otherwise..tough... > >>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the > >>>>>>>>>>>> question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it > >>>>>>>>>>>> right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is > >>>>>>>>>>>> neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells > >>>>>>>>>>>> one > >>>>>>>>>>>> it is right. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Martin Luther king Jr.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, people would do better if they learned to do their own praying. > >>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>> Thinking is preferred by everyone else here..it actually does > >>>>>>>>>> something... > >>>>>>>>> Well, so you think that you can destroy Christianity. That was what > >>>>>>>>> this conversation was about when it began. That was why I was > >>>>>>>>> pointing out that the Bible was the best selling book in the world. > >>>>>>>>> Not so, said atheists. Harry Potter is the best selling book in the > >>>>>>>>> world. > >>>>>>>> That's a bit melodramatic, isn't it? I'm just interested in your beliefs > >>>>>>>> and how they're rationalised. Destroying Christianity is a ridiculous > >>>>>>>> aspiration, you'd constantly be disappointed!- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>> So why do atheists have schools teaching that Christianity is false? > >>>>>>> If they do not have the aspiration, why are they trying to do it? > >>>>>> Do we? What schools? What fresh hell is this?!- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Public schools. > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>> It carries the same weight in a science classroom as say, the stork > >>>> theory, and the multitude of other religious fantasies about how present > >>>> day humans came to be. It's main work is studied in literature classes, > >>>> and in sociology classes, it's effect on believers and the societies > >>>> they live in is reviewed. History classes abound with christian > >>>> references(well..in the West,anyway...in the east, they could care > >>>> less). You have no reason to complain...it gets far more respect than > >>>> it deserves... > >>> When I was in school, we had a Baptist preacher who taught grades 5 > >>> through 8. He used to pray right in school. > >>> Robert B. Winn > >> I'm truly sorry for you then...child abuse in the guise of education is a > >> horrible thing. It explains a lot though...therapy is the first healing > >> measure you can do for yourself...- Hide quoted text - > > > Well, I know all about therapy. When an atheist says therapy, they > > mean thorazine or some other tranquilizer drug. > > Robert B. Winn > > With that as your background...I'm sure you've heard a lot of > diagnoses involving therapy....but Thorazine is mostly given these days > for retractable hiccups...not sedation > Uh huh. Doctors are afraid to give thorazine now because of lawsuits. They have other drugs just as bad. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 23 Jun 2008 10:16
On Jun 23, 3:59�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote in message > > news:zqD7k.122915$9x.72514(a)newsfe05.ams2... > > > > > > > > > "BuddyThunder" <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in message > >news:485d8a1f$1(a)clear.net.nz... > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 21, 8:16?am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>>> "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote in message > > >>>>news:6c4ja8F3erpl2U1(a)mid.individual.net... > > >>>>> If you think that Harry Potter is fiction then you must also think > >>>>> that > >>>>> London doesn't exist right? > >>>>> You'd better tell that to all of the people who live there, it may > >>>>> come as > >>>>> a surprise to them. > >>>> Like the esteemed Mr Winn Esq, London councils have no doubt whatsoever > >>>> about the existence of London. ?At least, that is what they profess > >>>> when > >>>> they send out council tax demands. > > >>> Taxes. �Well, that is something that should convince some atheists. > >>> Taxes are something they will never deny. > > >> Are taxes evidence that any gods exist? > > > Just the opposite. > > Taxes are evidence that there are no such things as gods. > > ... unless you are a church official tasked with collecting the tithe .....- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Take it up with church headquarters. So you want to stop the church from building any more church buildings. Members of the church want the buildings built. That is why they pay tithing. Robert B. Winn |