Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 22 Jun 2008 11:13 On Jun 21, 6:43 pm, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 20, 4:37 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 20, 2:40 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 20, 5:34 am, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 19, 5:55 am, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> Well, go ahead and talk about God, but I can tell you ahead of time, > >>>>>>>>> you do not know anything about God. No atheist does. > >>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>> nahh...we'll discus what we want...you choose your fiction..and > >>>>>>>> that's all you have been expressing faith in..nothing else...and we'll > >>>>>>>> point out our fiction...and we won't base a worldview on our inability > >>>>>>>> to deal with reality like you do....Don't like it? Pray for > >>>>>>>> us...otherwise..tough... > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the > >>>>>>>> question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it > >>>>>>>> right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is > >>>>>>>> neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells one > >>>>>>>> it is right. > >>>>>>>> Martin Luther king Jr.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> Well, people would do better if they learned to do their own praying. > >>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>> Thinking is preferred by everyone else here..it actually does > >>>>>> something... > >>>>> Well, so you think that you can destroy Christianity. That was what > >>>>> this conversation was about when it began. That was why I was > >>>>> pointing out that the Bible was the best selling book in the world. > >>>>> Not so, said atheists. Harry Potter is the best selling book in the > >>>>> world. > >>>> That's a bit melodramatic, isn't it? I'm just interested in your beliefs > >>>> and how they're rationalised. Destroying Christianity is a ridiculous > >>>> aspiration, you'd constantly be disappointed!- Hide quoted text - > >>> So why do atheists have schools teaching that Christianity is false? > >>> If they do not have the aspiration, why are they trying to do it? > >> Do we? What schools? What fresh hell is this?!- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Public schools. > > Robert B. Winn > > It carries the same weight in a science classroom as say, the stork > theory, and the multitude of other religious fantasies about how present > day humans came to be. It's main work is studied in literature classes, > and in sociology classes, it's effect on believers and the societies > they live in is reviewed. History classes abound with christian > references(well..in the West,anyway...in the east, they could care > less). You have no reason to complain...it gets far more respect than > it deserves... > When I was in school, we had a Baptist preacher who taught grades 5 through 8. He used to pray right in school. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 22 Jun 2008 11:14 On Jun 21, 7:11 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 21, 4:02 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >> > On Jun 21, 8:19�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>news:5de9de62-15db-436d-a09c-db8e21818eef(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > > >> >> Well, no. �Neither Stuart Dowling nor I suscribe to sorcery. > >> >> Atheists, on the other hand always have something about sorcery in > >> >> their signatures and nicknames similar to Ku Klux Klan members. > > >> >> ========== > > >> >> Do I now ... amazingly, I never noticed. > >> >> Would you be so kind and point out these features about my nanem and > >> >> signature? > >> >> Or is it something invisible which I will only be able to see using my > >> >> special-issue super-sikrit decoder ring? > > >> > Well, actually, Darrell Stec has yours included with his, since you > >> > support everything Darrell Stec says. > > >> Aaaaaah, the old atheist hive-mind canard again. You couldn't support it > >> before, will you now? > > >> YOU WILL BE... ASSIMILATED! RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Yes, Darrell's signature specifically mentions sorcery.  Other > > atheists call themselves witches, demons, etc. > > Idiot.  An atheist does not believe in gods, or demons or supernatural > forces.  Witches and demons cannot be atheists. > > > Yours mentions thunder. > > Robert b. Winn > So why all the references to sorcery? Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 22 Jun 2008 11:16 On Jun 21, 7:14 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 21, 4:01 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >> > On Jun 21, 3:55 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> >> rbwinn wrote: > >> >>> On Jun 20, 3:20 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> >>>>> On Jun 20, 3:15 am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >> >>>>> wrote: > >> >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> >>>>>>> On Jun 19, 8:34�am, Darrell Stec > >> >>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > >> >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> >>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 3:54�pm, Darrell Stec > >> >>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > >> >>>>>>>> Right now, just about every reader on these newsgroups is > >> >>>>>>>> convinced you are nothing but a liar and cannot defend your > >> >>>>>>>> absurd statements by providing evidence. > >> >>>>>>>>> Well, I > >> >>>>>>>>> could not remember Andrew and Thaddeus when I tried to think of > >> >>>>>>>>> them. What do we do now? > >> >>>>>>>> Read your bible and tell us the names of the twelve apostles > >> >>>>>>>> (which you claim, not I). �Why are you avoiding answering this > >> >>>>>>>> very easy question? �Is it because you actually know you cannot > >> >>>>>>>> reliably number them even using the bible? �Is it because you > >> >>>>>>>> actually know you cannot reliably name them even using the > >> >>>>>>>> bible? > >> >>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >> >>>>>>> Well, I have seen atheists gert worked up about this before. > >> >>>>>>> What difference does it make to an atheist?  I thought you did > >> >>>>>>> not believe in the apostles.  So why are you so worried about > >> >>>>>>> what their names were? > >> >>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >> >>>>>> Just to demonstrate that you are a liar and cannot name them.  You > >> >>>>>> are wrong about the number and wrong about the fact you can name > >> >>>>>> them.  Being an atheist has nothing to do about investigating the > >> >>>>>> contents of a work of literature, fiction, that has been handed > >> >>>>>> down through the millenia.  I don't have to believe any events in > >> >>>>>> The Lord of Rings to actually discuss the contents of the trilogy > >> >>>>>> while at the same time I can challenge someone who might assert > >> >>>>>> that Gandalf wore a robe of purple and pink where the story does > >> >>>>>> not provide evidence of it. Using your logic, nobody would study > >> >>>>>> any literature that was a work of fiction if they did not believe > >> >>>>>> the contents were true and if they believed that evidence could > >> >>>>>> not be provided to back up the stories.  You do know that both > >> >>>>>> private and public schools require studying the fictional stories > >> >>>>>> of Shakesphere, don't you? -- > >> >>>>> Yes, and I know atheists require study of Harry Potter.  That does > >> >>>>> not mean I think it is a good thing.  What I do notice about the > >> >>>>> Bible is that from what exists today, the Bible seems historically > >> >>>>> accurate, whereas, some other accounts of history such as > >> >>>>> Sennacherib's account of the Assyrian invasion of Judea seem > >> >>>>> inaccurate and self-serving. Then we have the kind of atheistic > >> >>>>> ideas that you continually expound, but have no proof are true.  It > >> >>>>> is my opinion that anti-Christ agendas are always based on false > >> >>>>> information. > >> >>>> You're still denying that London exists, huh? > >> >>>> Could you point to the evidence of a global flood? How about a young > >> >>>> earth? The historicity of Moses? Is the Bible really historically > >> >>>> accurate? You're probably not in a position to demand evidence.- > >> >>>> Hide quoted text - > >> >>> My friend Stuart Dowling says that London exists.  He says that is is > >> >>> Harry Potter who does not exist. > >> >> You're both religiously deluded about that by your own standards.- > >> >> Hide quoted text - > > >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> > Well, no.  Neither Stuart Dowling nor I suscribe to sorcery. > >> > Atheists, on the other hand always have something about sorcery in > >> > their signatures and nicknames similar to Ku Klux Klan members. > > >> We're applying your logic about tunnels and ramps supporting the bible > >> to London supporting Harry Potter. > > >> None of the atheists here subscribe to gods. Christians on the other > >> hand always have something about the supernatuaral in their signatures > >> and nicknames similar to mentally deluded schizophrenics. > > >> Hang on, I don't even have a signature, that wouldn't be another lie for > >> Jesus, would it?- Hide quoted text - > > > So what is Buddy Thunder supposed to mean?  If you want to believe > > Harry Potter exists, you are free to do that.  I do not believe Harry > > Potter exists. > > Yes you do because you believe London exists and London is mentioned in the > Harry Potter books and therefore if something exists in a book even if it > is a book of fiction then everything in that book must be true.  That is > what you said about the bible and therefore logic suggests if you are right > then it also applies to Harry Potter.  Therefore you believe in Harry > Potter.  Stop lying. > > > Robert B. Winn > We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 22 Jun 2008 11:20 On Jun 21, 7:17 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 21, 4:05 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >> > On Jun 21, 4:01 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> >> rbwinn wrote: > >> >>> On Jun 20, 3:24 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> >>>>> On Jun 18, 11:42 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> >>>>>>> On Jun 18, 4:45 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >> >>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>>>>>>>news:21d2e037-7498-4d49-bb95-5a308e107d58(a)j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com... > >> >>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 12:14 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >> >>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>>>>>>>>>news:c44cff96-90ef-45f4-badc-413fcf95321e(a)m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 10:41�am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>>>>>>>>>>>news:f8121cc3-37c1-4561-b7cc-b6292578b7f1(a)34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> All atheists I talk to indicate to me that if they do not > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> have a written record of something, then it did not exist, > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and if the written > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> record is the Bible, then it still did not exist. > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Liar. > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> We have simply told you on many occasions that the magical > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> events which > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> were > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> supposed to have taken place in your Bible are > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> uncorroborated by any other > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> source. > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, all you can do is bleat about ramps and conduits, > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> which offer > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> no > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> proof at all that the supposed magical events actually > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> happened, or that > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> the > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> main characters depicted in the book actually existed. > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> You are either incapable of listening, or unwilling to > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> listen. -- > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Hey, you atheists thought Harry Potter was going to make the > >> >>>>>>>>>>> tunnels and ramps disappear. > >> >>>>>>>>>> We did no such thing. > >> >>>>>>>>>> You simply offered that as a straw man argument to disguise > >> >>>>>>>>>> your weak position. > >> >>>>>>>>> I was not arguing about anything.  If you atheists want to > >> >>>>>>>>> believe in Harry Potter, go ahead and believe in him.  I just > >> >>>>>>>>> said that there was a tunnel between Gihon spring and the Pool > >> >>>>>>>>> of Siloam, exactly the way three books of the Old Testament say > >> >>>>>>>>> there is, and there is an earthen ramp over the city wall at > >> >>>>>>>>> the ruins of Lachish.  You want to be cute about it, so go > >> >>>>>>>>> ahead and be cute. Robert B. Winn > >> >>>>>>>> Now explain why the existence of this tunnel and ramp and the > >> >>>>>>>> fact that they are mentioned in the bible is evidence that the > >> >>>>>>>> rest of the magic story is real. > >> >>>>>>> So what you would have me believe is that there are only two > >> >>>>>>> things mentioned in the Bible that are real, an earthen ramp and > >> >>>>>>> a conduit for water.  I think that there are other things > >> >>>>>>> mentioned in the Bible that are real. > >> >>>>>> I'm sure there are other things that are true in the Bible, but > >> >>>>>> they require independent verification before we'll know. > >> >>>>>> As you well know, London exists just as decribed in Harry Potter, > >> >>>>>> but that's no reason to accept flying broomsticks. Flying > >> >>>>>> broomsticks would require independent evidence. We don't have any. > >> >>>>>> So there's no compelling reason to believe in it. > >> >>>>>> Jerusalem exists, just as described in the Bible, but that's no > >> >>>>>> reason to accept a six-literal-day creation. A six day creation > >> >>>>>> would require independent evidence. We don't have any. We have > >> >>>>>> overwhelming evidence for an old earth. So there's no compelling > >> >>>>>> reason to believe in a young earth.- Hide quoted text - > >> >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> >>>>> Well, you atheists insist on relativity of time except in one > >> >>>>> circumstance, the creation of the earth.  When it comes to > >> >>>>> dinosaurs, you insist on absolute time, just like Isaac Newton. > >> >>>> You think that a 6000 year old planet that looks 4.5 billion years > >> >>>> old can be accounted for by the theory of relativity? Could you > >> >>>> explain the mechanism in layman's terms? I'm not an expert.- Hide > >> >>>> quoted text - - Show quoted text - > >> >>> Well, as I said, you atheists do not want relativity of time applied > >> >>> to this particular thing, which the Bible does in more than one > >> >>> place.  There are two definitions of time at the present, only one of > >> >>> which scientists will discuss, what they call local time or > >> >>> scientific time.  This is defined by a certain number of transition > >> >>> of a cesium isotope molecule.  Then Einstein's theory shows that if a > >> >>> cesium isotope molecule is moving relative to another cesium isotope > >> >>> molecule, then the time of its transitions will be slower than the > >> >>> transitions of the molecule that is not moving.  So time is relative, > >> >>> except when scientists are talking about dinosaurs or the time of the > >> >>> planet earth. > >> >> Where can I read the peer-reviewed publication of this fascinating new > >> >> theory? That's quite something, you should write it up if no-one has, > >> >> it's Nobel Prize material!- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> > I write it up all the time in sci.physics.relativity. > > >> Posting in a usenet group is not an effective way of getting a > >> challenging new theory taken seriously. Why wouldn't you go through > >> accepted scientific channels? Do you not really believe your new theory?- > >> Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > I am the only one who does.  I would suspect that sometime in the > > coming centuries that someone in science will decide to think about > > time, and then it will be accepted.  Right now scientists are making > > too much money selling Einstein's idea. > > Robert B. Winn > > That is not how it works, but then you know nothing about science or > scientists.  If someone could prove that Einstein was wrong, they would > make multiples more money than acception.  Scientists accept Einstein's > theories because all the evidence supports it. > The Lorentz equations are a very accurate approximation, but they are still an approximation, not an exact representation mathematically. My equations give exact distances and times. Robert B. Winn
From: TT on 22 Jun 2008 13:06
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:13:28 -0400, rbwinn wrote (in article <b632d03c-1575-41fa-8b21-2d50f35863f1(a)f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>): > On Jun 21, 6:43�pm, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jun 20, 4:37 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jun 20, 2:40 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 20, 5:34 am, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 5:55 am, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Well, go ahead and talk about God, but I can tell you ahead of >>>>>>>>>>> time, >>>>>>>>>>> you do not know anything about God. �No atheist does. >>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>> � � nahh...we'll discus what we want...you choose your fiction..and >>>>>>>>>> that's all you have been expressing faith in..nothing else...and >>>>>>>>>> we'll >>>>>>>>>> point out our fiction...and we won't base a worldview on our >>>>>>>>>> inability >>>>>>>>>> to deal with reality like you do....Don't like it? � Pray for >>>>>>>>>> us...otherwise..tough... >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> �Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the >>>>>>>>>> question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it >>>>>>>>>> right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is >>>>>>>>>> neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells >>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>> it is right.� >>>>>>>>>> � � �Martin Luther king Jr.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>> Well, people would do better if they learned to do their own praying. >>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>> � � Thinking is preferred by everyone else here..it actually does >>>>>>>> something... >>>>>>> Well, so you think that you can destroy Christianity. �That was what >>>>>>> this conversation was about when it began. �That was why I was >>>>>>> pointing out that the Bible was the best selling book in the world. >>>>>>> Not so, said atheists. �Harry Potter is the best selling book in the >>>>>>> world. >>>>>> That's a bit melodramatic, isn't it? I'm just interested in your beliefs >>>>>> and how they're rationalised. Destroying Christianity is a ridiculous >>>>>> aspiration, you'd constantly be disappointed!- Hide quoted text - >>>>> So why do atheists have schools teaching that Christianity is false? >>>>> If they do not have the aspiration, why are they trying to do it? >>>> Do we? What schools? What fresh hell is this?!- Hide quoted text - >> >>>> - Show quoted text - >> >>> Public schools. >>> Robert B. Winn >> >> � � It carries the same weight in a science classroom as say, the stork >> theory, and the multitude of other religious fantasies about how present >> day humans came to be. �It's main work is studied in literature classes, >> and in sociology classes, it's effect on believers and the societies >> they live in is reviewed. �History classes abound with christian >> references(well..in the West,anyway...in the east, they could care >> less). �You have no reason to complain...it gets far more respect than >> it deserves... >> > When I was in school, we had a Baptist preacher who taught grades 5 > through 8. He used to pray right in school. > Robert B. Winn I'm truly sorry for you then...child abuse in the guise of education is a horrible thing. It explains a lot though...therapy is the first healing measure you can do for yourself... |