Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: hhyapster on 7 Aug 2008 23:00 On Aug 8, 8:43 am, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:0db84a8a-33db-4f48-aa79-8afd64bad67e(a)b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > On 7 Aug, 00:36, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > > > <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > On Aug 7, 1:29 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > On 6 Aug, 17:15, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > > > <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > > On Aug 6, 11:58 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Aug 6, 1:50 am, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > > > > > <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > On Aug 6, 4:29 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 7:47 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 6:50 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > > >>> On Aug 4, 10:10 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> > > > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>> On Aug 4, 8:35 pm, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Aug 4, 8:02 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Aug 3, 8:56 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 4:29 pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 15:24:56 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> in alt.atheism: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 8:12?am, DanielSan > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 2, 8:53 pm, Free Lunch > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:08:55 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in alt.atheism: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 1, 2:30?pm, DanielSan > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discuss it with John after the resurrection. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No proof of this alleged "resurrection", is > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there? > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually there is. The apostles were > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witnesses of the > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resurrected Christ on two separate occasions. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No evidence backs up your claim. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I could send you a copy of the Bible if > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> you want one. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have a Bible. ?There's no evidence in there to > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> back up your claim. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> first day of the > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> week, when the doors were shut where the disciples > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> were assembled for > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> midst, and saith unto > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> them, Peace be unto you. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> John 21:9 As soon then as they were come to land, > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> they saw a fire of > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ye have now > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> caught. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> full of great > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> all there were so > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> many, yet was not the net broken. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 12Jesus saith unto them Come and dine, And none of > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the disciples durst > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ask him , Who art thou? knowing that it was the > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Lord. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 13 Jesus then cometh , and taketh bread, and > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> giveth them, and fish > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> likewise. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> himself to his > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> disciples, after that he was risen from the dead. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> The Bible still is not evidence. I asked for > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> evidence.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> The Bible is accepted as evidence in court. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> For what kinds of cases? > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> For any kind of case. A lawyer can request that a > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Bible be entered as > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> evidence in any court case. Clarence Darrow had the > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Bible entered as > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> evidence in the famous "monkey trial". > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Riobert B. Winn > > > > > > > > >>>>>> A judge must be mad or loony if he were to allow for > > > > > > > > >>>>>> bible as > > > > > > > > >>>>>> evidence. > > > > > > > > >>>>>> You mean that ancient time recording can be the > > > > > > > > >>>>>> evidence for modern > > > > > > > > >>>>>> time crime or cases? > > > > > > > > >>>>>> This would also mean America is declining, at a rate > > > > > > > > >>>>>> faster than I > > > > > > > > >>>>>> thought.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > >>>>> Well, it happened in 1934, or whenever it was. So we > > > > > > > > >>>>> have that > > > > > > > > >>>>> precedent in American jurisprudence. > > > > > > > > >>>> In only one type of trial, if it happened at all. Your > > > > > > > > >>>> credibility is > > > > > > > > >>>> nil at this point. > > > > > > > > >>> Well, judges of today are very careful to make certain > > > > > > > > >>> that only > > > > > > > > >>> atheism is allowed in courtrooms. > > > > > > > > >> You mean, they'll only allow secular evidence? > > > > > > > > > >>> That does not mean that the Bible > > > > > > > > >>> is not evidence. No matter how hard atheists try, they are > > > > > > > > >>> unable to > > > > > > > > >>> make the Bible disappear. That is why it is evidence. > > > > > > > > >> Atheists are not trying to make the Bible disappear. > > > > > > > > > >> It also isn't evidence, no matter hard you try to make it > > > > > > > > >> evidence. > > > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > > So you are saying that the Bible is like Hezekiah's tunnel, > > > > > > > > > it does > > > > > > > > > not exist. > > > > > > > > > Um. No. > > > > > > > > If the Bible exists, then it is evidence. So does it exist or > > > > > > > not? > > > > > > > Robert B. Winn > > > > > > > Yes, several of them exist. Several Harry Potter books exist too. > > > > > > What was your point here anyway? > > > > > > If you want to talk about Harry Potter books, we can talk about > > > > > Harry > > > > > Potter books, Al. Do you believe that Harry Potter is going to save > > > > > you? > > > > > Robert B. Winn > > > > > No. What makes you think I need saving? > > > > I think the H Potter books draw heavily on pre-existing fairy tales to > > > > create a mythology that feels vaguely right. Much like the bible drew > > > > on pre-existing mythology to create it's own. A clear sign of fiction > > > > is that it is derivative of prior fictions. > > > > Well, so you feel comforted and secure when you read Harry Potter > > > books. > > > Robert B. Winn > > > I'm sure lots of people do, but as I've pointed out before, I haven't > > done any Harry Potter readings. ?When I read that bible thing I mostly > > get annoyed. > > Is comfort your guide to what's true? ?If so, you might want to stay > > away from reading anything on modern physics. > > > Al- Hide quoted text - > > Well, I do read comedy from time to time. However, the best thing to > read is non-fiction like the Bible. > ======================================== > The bible is non-fiction? Now *that* is funny, skippy. > > Smiler, > The godless one > a.a.# 2279 Ah, Smiler, you are wrong here. He said he read comedy (book) from time to time....and non-fiction but comedy bible (book). If this is his stand, at least it's not too far off.
From: Matthew Johnson on 7 Aug 2008 23:03 In article <91bf9c20-6e27-4dc3-be72-b34199c6eba3(a)w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, hhyapster(a)gmail.com says... > >On Aug 8, 6:03 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >> On 7 Aug, 06:42, ben_dolan_...(a)reet.com (Ben Dolan) wrote: > [snip] >But your V.A. Hospital psychiatrists also gave up on you, it would >mean your illness is probably beyond repair. >Anyway, I know for a fact that twisted mind and mentally ill sickness >has no known medicine, same as for stupidity. >Ben is definitely correct in his assessment and opinion, pls have the >decency to thank him. >Or you were not brought up with any mannerism? The word is 'manners' not 'mannerism'! The latter he has, and his mannerism is very odd, not 'manners' at all!
From: rbwinn on 7 Aug 2008 23:07 On 7 Aug, 19:01, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > On Aug 7, 9:45 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > never appoint Steve to be our spokesman. > > > > You have confused with the message that Steve was putting across. > > > > You have never see the point that any story can make reference to an > > > > existing object, place, event, people, government, race, animal and > > > > etc, but the tales are made up (imagined). This is exactly what Harry > > > > Potter did. > > > > So, if the Harry Potter referred to London, does it make the character > > > > in the tales real? > > > > The bible that you value so much is also the same as Harry Potter, > > > > tales imagined in someone's head.- Hide quoted text - > > > The construction of the tunnel is described in the Bible. �The > > Assyrians were invading Judea and had taken several cities. �The Jews > > at Jerusalem decided to hide the water from Gihon spring because they > > did not want the Assyrians using that water when they besieged > > Jerusalem, so they CONSTRUCTED a conduit for water to take the water > > to the pool of Siloam inside Jerusalem. �They used picks and shovels, > > as is explained in the inscription they left on the wall of the > > tunnel, written in ancient Hebrew. �The fact that they wrote in > > ancient Hebrew shows that the tunnel was made before the Babylonian > > captivity which took place in 600 B.C. �The Assyrian invasion took > > place in 701 B.C. > > Robert B. Winn > > So, the bible tales were written after the existence of tunnel, right? > Your Harry Potter stories also was written after the existence of > London . No, the book of Isaiah was being written while the tunnel was being dug. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 7 Aug 2008 23:14 On 7 Aug, 19:50, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > On Aug 8, 5:58 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On 7 Aug, 06:21, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > On 7 Aug, 01:01, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > > > >> On Aug 6, 9:58 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > >>> On Aug 6, 1:50 am, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > > >>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > >>>> On Aug 6, 4:29 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > >>>>> On Aug 5, 7:47 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>> On Aug 5, 6:50 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>> On Aug 4, 10:10 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 4, 8:35 pm, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 4, 8:02 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 8:56 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 4:29 pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 15:24:56 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in alt.atheism: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 3, 8:12?am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 2, 8:53 pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:08:55 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in alt.atheism: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 1, 2:30?pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discuss it with John after the resurrection. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No proof of this alleged "resurrection", is there? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually there is. The apostles were witnesses of the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resurrected Christ on two separate occasions. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No evidence backs up your claim. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I could send you a copy of the Bible if you want one. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a Bible. ?There's no evidence in there to back up your claim. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them, Peace be unto you. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John 21:9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> caught. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many, yet was not the net broken. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12Jesus saith unto them Come and dine, And none of the disciples durst > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask him , Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13 Jesus then cometh , and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disciples, after that he was risen from the dead. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Bible still is not evidence. I asked for evidence.- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Bible is accepted as evidence in court. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For what kinds of cases? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> For any kind of case. A lawyer can request that a Bible be entered as > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence in any court case. Clarence Darrow had the Bible entered as > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence in the famous "monkey trial". > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Riobert B. Winn > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> A judge must be mad or loony if he were to allow for bible as > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> evidence. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> You mean that ancient time recording can be the evidence for modern > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> time crime or cases? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> This would also mean America is declining, at a rate faster than I > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought.- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, it happened in 1934, or whenever it was. So we have that > > > >>>>>>>>>>> precedent in American jurisprudence. > > > >>>>>>>>>> In only one type of trial, if it happened at all. Your credibility is > > > >>>>>>>>>> nil at this point. > > > >>>>>>>>> Well, judges of today are very careful to make certain that only > > > >>>>>>>>> atheism is allowed in courtrooms. > > > >>>>>>>> You mean, they'll only allow secular evidence? > > > >>>>>>>>> That does not mean that the Bible > > > >>>>>>>>> is not evidence. No matter how hard atheists try, they are unable to > > > >>>>>>>>> make the Bible disappear. That is why it is evidence. > > > >>>>>>>> Atheists are not trying to make the Bible disappear. > > > >>>>>>>> It also isn't evidence, no matter hard you try to make it evidence. > > > >>>>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>>> So you are saying that the Bible is like Hezekiah's tunnel, it does > > > >>>>>>> not exist. > > > >>>>>> Um. No. > > > >>>>> If the Bible exists, then it is evidence. So does it exist or not? > > > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > > > >>>> Yes, several of them exist. Several Harry Potter books exist too. > > > >>>> What was your point here anyway? > > > >>> If you want to talk about Harry Potter books, we can talk about Harry > > > >>> Potter books, Al. Do you believe that Harry Potter is going to save > > > >>> you? > > > >>> Robert B. Winn > > > >> How idiotic. > > > >> And you think that the bible is going to save you? > > > >> Save you from your insanity?- Hide quoted text - > > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > > The only way anyone is going to be saved is through the Atonement of > > > > Christ. That would include any atheists who change their minds about > > > > being saved. > > > > Sorry, but I don't need to be "saved". I'm going to live my life to the > > > fullest and then die. How about you? > > > > -- > > > I am going to be saved. > > Robert B. Winn > > So, you committed a lot of sins. > In modern terms, they are called crimes....care to list them for our > understanding.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, no. When I was young I was very foolish. So what happened to your imagination? Has Harry Potter failed you? Robert B. Winn
From: DanielSan on 7 Aug 2008 23:20
rbwinn wrote: > On 7 Aug, 19:01, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: >> On Aug 7, 9:45 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >> > >>>>> never appoint Steve to be our spokesman. >>>>> You have confused with the message that Steve was putting across. >>>>> You have never see the point that any story can make reference to an >>>>> existing object, place, event, people, government, race, animal and >>>>> etc, but the tales are made up (imagined). This is exactly what Harry >>>>> Potter did. >>>>> So, if the Harry Potter referred to London, does it make the character >>>>> in the tales real? >>>>> The bible that you value so much is also the same as Harry Potter, >>>>> tales imagined in someone's head.- Hide quoted text - >>> The construction of the tunnel is described in the Bible. �The >>> Assyrians were invading Judea and had taken several cities. �The Jews >>> at Jerusalem decided to hide the water from Gihon spring because they >>> did not want the Assyrians using that water when they besieged >>> Jerusalem, so they CONSTRUCTED a conduit for water to take the water >>> to the pool of Siloam inside Jerusalem. �They used picks and shovels, >>> as is explained in the inscription they left on the wall of the >>> tunnel, written in ancient Hebrew. �The fact that they wrote in >>> ancient Hebrew shows that the tunnel was made before the Babylonian >>> captivity which took place in 600 B.C. �The Assyrian invasion took >>> place in 701 B.C. >>> Robert B. Winn >> So, the bible tales were written after the existence of tunnel, right? >> Your Harry Potter stories also was written after the existence of >> London . > > No, the book of Isaiah was being written while the tunnel was being > dug. I'm thinking about writing a story about leprechauns. Down my way is a transit center that is going to be built. I'm going to write a story about leprechauns helping the construction workers build the transit center. Once the transit center is built, do leprechauns exist? -- **************************************************** * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * *--------------------------------------------------* * Can God create a Thai dish so spicy that even He * * can't eat it? * **************************************************** |