GETTING RID OF EINSTEIN RELATIVITY
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From: Androcles on 16 Oct 2007 04:47 "George Dishman" <george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:1192521038.655419.120310(a)i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com... : On 15 Oct, 23:24, HW@....(Clueless Henri Wilson) wrote: : > On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:52:37 +0100, "George Dishman" <geo...(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: : > >"Clueless Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message : ... : > >Henry, have you got the applet running yet? If not, : > >do so before you go any farther. I'll wait until you : > >can see it before replying to any of your other posts. : > : > I have the applet running.... : : Excellent. : : > and it's quite useless. : > I'm creating a better one. : > : > >If (when) you can, watch what happens. The yellow line : > >marks the source when the signal is first emitted and : > >you can watch the discontinuity at the start of the : > >waves moving round. While that is happening you can : > >see the source emitting waves in sync. However, there : > >is but no equivalent detection mark. : > : > >The yellow dot marks the coordinates in the inertial : > >frame where the magenta dots are emitted and in fact : > >Jerry could have removed the yellow line when she added : > >the dots. The green dot marks the location where the : > >magenta dots are detected. The idea is that you can : > >see that the crests marked by the magenta dots move : > >away from the yellow dot at the right speeds for : > >ballistic theory. If the pixels-per-second for the : > >source line from the yellow dot is v then the magenta : > >dots need to move at c+v and c-v pixels-per-second. : > : > I suspected that was the case. : > Now count the wavelengths in each path. They are different and proportional to : > speed. : > This does not mean the number of wavelengths is NOT the same between source and : > detector. It always remains the same (at any constant speed) : : So Jerry's simulation is not useless, you finally : learned what it shows. What is doesn't show makes it only semi-useful. It doesn't show the Doppler shift Grandpa sees, yet the point of view is that of Grandpa's. : You can also now watch the : phase of the two signals as they pass the yellow : dot. Can you see that their phase changes with : time? Yes, I saw that straight away with Rev 0, (now Rev 4.1) and Jeery doesn't show it. That's where the frustration comes in and people get angry because the OP is blind to the obvious. One has to learn to observe and not leap to conclusions. Jeery's comments on that page are ridiculously prejudiced and WRONG.
From: Dr. Henri Wilson on 16 Oct 2007 18:36 On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:41:48 GMT, "Androcles" <Engineer(a)hogwarts.physics> wrote: > >"Dr. Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message >news:5dp7h390ucgf84socaupabm5dg2fhp5r5m(a)4ax.com... >: On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 02:13:17 GMT, "Androcles" <Engineer(a)hogwarts.physics> >: wrote: >: >: > >: >"Dr. Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message >: >news:gm45h3pr7l2tb65fdeu0mh5jubgsredo4k(a)4ax.com... >: >: On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 00:12:34 GMT, "Androcles" ><Engineer(a)hogwarts.physics> >: >: wrote: >: >: >: >: > >: >: >: > http://www.georgedishman.f2s.com/Henri/SameWavelength.png >: >: >: >: >: >: George, the emission point is the yellow line. >: >: > >: >: >You pair of imbeciles cannot count. >: >: > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tickfairy.gif >: >: >How many teeth in each wheel? >: >: >: >: You have to count from the emission point to the detector... >: > >: >Go on, then, do it. Quit running your mouth and prove you can >: >count. >: >How many teeth on each wheel have I drawn? >: >: The number ... > >Wrong answer, Wilson, try again. Quit running your mouth and >prove you can count. > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tickfairy.gif >How many teeth on each wheel have I drawn? You are counting from the wrong point. Even George undestands that the emission point doesn't move even thpough the source does. Where George is hopelessly wrong is in assuming the rays always meet in phase. Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm
From: Dr. Henri Wilson on 16 Oct 2007 18:38 On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:41:48 GMT, "Androcles" <Engineer(a)hogwarts.physics> wrote: > >"Dr. Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message >news:u8p7h3l41okcp8vsnitaikbp10e04fipan(a)4ax.com... >: >>>You get the same wavelength by either method. >: > >: >Get it yet? >: > >: >"You get the same wavelength by either method." >: > >: >I am saying your claim is _correct_ so stop and >: >_think_ before disagreeing! >: >: I'm basicaly disagreeing with him. > > >That's good, Wilson, I want it on record that you disagreed with me. > >"There are about 13 waves in the blue and 6 in the red." --Wilson, 12 Oct >2007. >"the number of waves between the source and detector is >the same in both paths and constant." -- Wilson, 15 Oct 2007. Both above statements are correct. It is no fault of mine if you cannot get into your head that the 'stationary emission point' is NOT the same thing as the 'moving source'. >"That's the kind of argument I'd expect from a desperate >person....completely out of ideas... ahahahaha!" -- Wilson. > >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! get off the whisky.... Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm
From: Dr. Henri Wilson on 16 Oct 2007 18:45 On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:50:38 -0700, George Dishman <george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: >On 15 Oct, 23:24, HW@....(Clueless Henri Wilson) wrote: >> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:52:37 +0100, "George Dishman" <geo...(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> >"Clueless Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message >... >> >Henry, have you got the applet running yet? If not, >> >do so before you go any farther. I'll wait until you >> >can see it before replying to any of your other posts. >> >> I have the applet running.... > >Excellent. > >> and it's quite useless. >> I'm creating a better one. >> >> >If (when) you can, watch what happens. The yellow line >> >marks the source when the signal is first emitted and >> >you can watch the discontinuity at the start of the >> >waves moving round. While that is happening you can >> >see the source emitting waves in sync. However, there >> >is but no equivalent detection mark. >> >> >The yellow dot marks the coordinates in the inertial >> >frame where the magenta dots are emitted and in fact >> >Jerry could have removed the yellow line when she added >> >the dots. The green dot marks the location where the >> >magenta dots are detected. The idea is that you can >> >see that the crests marked by the magenta dots move >> >away from the yellow dot at the right speeds for >> >ballistic theory. If the pixels-per-second for the >> >source line from the yellow dot is v then the magenta >> >dots need to move at c+v and c-v pixels-per-second. >> >> I suspected that was the case. >> Now count the wavelengths in each path. They are different and proportional to >> speed. >> This does not mean the number of wavelengths is NOT the same between source and >> detector. It always remains the same (at any constant speed) > >So Jerry's simulation is not useless, you finally >learned what it shows. You can also now watch the >phase of the two signals as they pass the yellow >dot. Can you see that their phase changes with >time? Can you work out why? If so, you should >understand why trying to use the path length >difference in the inertial frame doesn't easily >tell you the phase at the detector. That's why >the math on your web page is wrong. George, your mistake is in assuming that the rays are always in phase when they meet. they are not. >> Fringe movement and displacement change occurs only during an acceleration, >> when 'wavelength' in each path is NOT the same. > >No, fringe displacement is proportional to the >speed-induced phase difference at the detector. That's what I said. The is a phase difference at the detector.....determined by the difference in number of wavelengths in each path. >Jerry's code is correct. It might be...but it doesn't model a ring gyro. >> >> >Try to think that through Henry, I'm sure it will >> >give you some difficulty. >> >> I have already George. Much of what you say is basically correct except that >> you are completely overlooking the vital question of what happens during an >> acceleration. >> The answer is, "everything". > >The fringes will vary in a complex way but there >is no memory in the system. Sagnac didn't switch >on the light bulb until the speed was stable so >what would have happened to fringes had he switched >on the bulb is moot, only the phase difference >while the bulb was on matters. George, the rays are not in phase when they reunite. You seem to think this should be the case just because the travel times are the same. That does not follow. Think again George. >George Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm
From: Androcles on 16 Oct 2007 20:37
"Dr. Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message news:a4fah35kk61oujsfj7e6nb4107gs7ii6sq(a)4ax.com... : On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:41:48 GMT, "Androcles" <Engineer(a)hogwarts.physics> : wrote: : : > : >"Dr. Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message : >news:5dp7h390ucgf84socaupabm5dg2fhp5r5m(a)4ax.com... : >: On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 02:13:17 GMT, "Androcles" <Engineer(a)hogwarts.physics> : >: wrote: : >: : >: > : >: >"Dr. Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message : >: >news:gm45h3pr7l2tb65fdeu0mh5jubgsredo4k(a)4ax.com... : >: >: On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 00:12:34 GMT, "Androcles" : ><Engineer(a)hogwarts.physics> : >: >: wrote: : >: : >: >: >: > : >: >: >: > http://www.georgedishman.f2s.com/Henri/SameWavelength.png : >: >: >: : >: >: >: George, the emission point is the yellow line. : >: >: > : >: >: >You pair of imbeciles cannot count. : >: >: > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tickfairy.gif : >: >: >How many teeth in each wheel? : >: >: : >: >: You have to count from the emission point to the detector... : >: > : >: >Go on, then, do it. Quit running your mouth and prove you can : >: >count. : >: >How many teeth on each wheel have I drawn? : >: : >: The number ... : > : >Wrong answer, Wilson, try again. Quit running your mouth and : >prove you can count. : > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tickfairy.gif : >How many teeth on each wheel have I drawn? : : You are counting ... Wrong answer, Wilson, try again. Quit running your mouth and prove you can count. http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tickfairy.gif How many teeth on each wheel have I drawn? Is it A) 20 B) 21 C) 22 D) 23 E) 24 F) 25 G) 26 H) 27 I) 28 J) 29 K) 30 L) Other ......................... (specify) |