GETTING RID OF EINSTEIN RELATIVITY
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From: Dr. Henri Wilson on 19 Oct 2007 18:01 On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 01:10:05 GMT, "Androcles" <Engineer(a)hogwarts.physics> wrote: > >"Dr. Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message >news:9ktfh35dkoaltrga720c8ccd480b00v2s7(a)4ax.com... >: On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 00:38:59 +0100, "George Dishman" ><george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> >: wrote: >: >> The teeth represent absolute wavelengths. >: > >: >That part is correct but just make each part move >: >at the right speed and it falls out automatically. >: >: The red and blue lines move at c+v and c-v. > >Lines do not move. The tip of the line moves. No, the whole line moves. there is actually a line in front of the one I show...representing photons that were emitted beforehand. >: They represet the light rays in the non rotating frame. > >Yes. The tip of the line represents ONE photon. > > >: They travel for the same time and meet at the same instant at the >detector. > >Sure, but how far do they travel? >Is it >a) piR, half way around? >b) 2piR, all the way around? >c) 3piR? >d) (2pi+alpha) R? >e) Other? >f) all of the above? >g) none of the above? d is correct..but I prefer to write it as 2piR+vt...which is the same thing. >: They travel different distances and do not meet in the same phase. > >Phase is too difficult for you or Dishpan. Stick to travelling different >distances. the rest follows...since wavelength is absolute in BaTh. ....it doesn't follow for a closet aetherist....ask Seto.. >: >> light speed. >: > >: >That's your error, the waves have to get from source >: >to detector and that takes time. >: >: Both rays take the same time to get there. That is clearly shown in the >: animation. > >Yes, that is correct. Dishpan is a fuckhead to mention time. >That's his error. It is indeed. >: >: They are photons not sqiggly lines. > >Correct. squiggley or squiggly?...or maybe even squigglie... >: >Irrelevant, it is wrong. As I said before, it gives >: >you the answer you WANT. It isn't the CORRECT answer. >: >: George you are now speaking out of sheer desperation . > >Of course he is. He's a dumbfuck like Jeery. > >: My result is exactly the same as that of SR. > >Ah! So you ARE a closet Einstein Dingleberry! No, dopey. It means that SR has used a disguised form of BaTh to explain Sagnac. Remember it requireslight speeds of c+v and c-v. >: >: >>> >: >>>You forgot your "K" factor which says the photons _don't_ >: >>>get compressed. >: >> >: >> I didnt forget. >: > >: >Yes, you just conveniently ignored it. >: >: It's too small to worry about over the distances involved here. > > >Fringe shifts are very small, Georges Sagnac used a lot >of magnification. Just ask the fuckhead Dishpan. George often introduces irrelevancies in an attempt to stall for time. >: It occurs only during an acceleration anyway, when the number of >wavelengths in >: the paths change and the fringes MOVE. > >No, the shift is radians per second dependent by the coriolis effect. > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Sagnac/RLG.gif to hell with coriolis.... >: This tells you what BaTh predicts: >: http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/ringgyro.htm > >Oh yes, counting the distance R to R' twice as the tick fairy said, >then taking the extra tick from the red and giving it to the blue. >That's BaTh... tell me about it in the morning.... Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm
From: Dr. Henri Wilson on 19 Oct 2007 18:02 On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:45:46 +0100, "George Dishman" <george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >"Clueless Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message >news:9ktfh35dkoaltrga720c8ccd480b00v2s7(a)4ax.com... >> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 00:38:59 +0100, "George Dishman" >> <george(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>>"Clueless Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message >>>news:08ffh39c9j2ac1pligl8k1vi8fnmd3ba45(a)4ax.com... >>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:46:08 +0100, "George Dishman" >>>> >>>> The toothed wheel represents a snapshot of BOTH rays when they are in >>>> phase at the emission point. >>> >>>Useless, the whole point is that they move at >>>different speeds. Show that and see what happens. >>> >>>> The teeth represent absolute wavelengths. >>> >>>That part is correct but just make each part move >>>at the right speed and it falls out automatically. >> >> The red and blue lines move at c+v and c-v. > >The waves move, the job of ballistic theory is to >say how fast. Your program has no propagation >whatsoever. Don't resort to stupid statements like this George. They don't help your dying cause. >George > Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm
From: Jerry on 20 Oct 2007 16:59 On Oct 16, 2:50 am, George Dishman <geo...(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: > On 15 Oct, 23:24, HW@....(Clueless Henri Wilson) wrote: > > > On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:52:37 +0100, "George Dishman" <geo...(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > >Try to think that through Henry, I'm sure it will > > >give you some difficulty. > > > I have already George. Much of what you say is > > basically correct except that you are completely > > overlooking the vital question of what happens > > during an acceleration. > > The answer is, "everything". > > The fringes will vary in a complex way but there > is no memory in the system. Sagnac didn't switch > on the light bulb until the speed was stable so > what would have happened to fringes had he switched > on the bulb is moot, only the phase difference > while the bulb was on matters. I've survived Midterm Week! After getting home Friday, I decided to write a new applet to address Henri's misconceptions about how acceleration may affect the results. Original applet: http://mysite.verizon.net/cephalobus_alienus/sagnac/BallisticSagnac.htm Scroll down a bit for the new applet, or click on the following: http://mysite.verizon.net/cephalobus_alienus/sagnac/BallisticSagnac.htm#transients Here are my comments on my web site concerning the new applet: One of the more creative of the crackpots in the sci.physics.* newsgroups, Henri Wilson, suggested that my original applet, which modeled the steady state operation of a Sagnac apparatus under the assumptions of Ballistic Theory, was somehow flawed because it could not model the effects of acceleration. Henri wrote, "...you are completely overlooking the vital question of what happens during an acceleration. The answer is, 'everything'." Working through his muddled logic is rather difficult, but it appears that his claim is that during acceleration, the transient fringe displacements that all theories predict (Ballistic, Relativistic, and Aetherist) persist even after the acceleration phase of the Sagnac experiment has ended and the system hasreached steady-state. This is, of course, nonsense. In the above simulation, the Sagnac ring is pre-initialized with light waves from the turntable at rest. After starting the simulation, changes in the rotation rate of the turntable are allowed during the first ten seconds. Click on "View Screen" to see how fringes are formed on the photographic plate or screen. As a first experiment, I suggest letting the simulation run for five seconds, then clicking once on the rotation rate spinner (either up or down). After doing this, one one will then see, to the right, a rapid, continuously increasing displacement of the fringes until the total displacement reaches slightly more than one fringe width. The fringes then "snap back" to their original position (i.e. zero displacement) since the light has had a chance to catch up. After reaching steady state with a constant rotation rate, Ballistic Theory predicts that the fringe displacement will be zero. Ballistic Theory is, of course, disproven once again. Jerry
From: Dr. Henri Wilson on 20 Oct 2007 18:42 On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 13:59:53 -0700, Jerry <Cephalobus_alienus(a)comcast.net> wrote: >On Oct 16, 2:50 am, George Dishman <geo...(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> On 15 Oct, 23:24, HW@....(Clueless Henri Wilson) wrote: >> >> > On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:52:37 +0100, "George Dishman" <geo...(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >> > >Try to think that through Henry, I'm sure it will >> > >give you some difficulty. >> >> > I have already George. Much of what you say is >> > basically correct except that you are completely >> > overlooking the vital question of what happens >> > during an acceleration. >> > The answer is, "everything". >> >> The fringes will vary in a complex way but there >> is no memory in the system. Sagnac didn't switch >> on the light bulb until the speed was stable so >> what would have happened to fringes had he switched >> on the bulb is moot, only the phase difference >> while the bulb was on matters. > >I've survived Midterm Week! After getting home Friday, >I decided to write a new applet to address Henri's >misconceptions about how acceleration may affect the >results. > >Original applet: >http://mysite.verizon.net/cephalobus_alienus/sagnac/BallisticSagnac.htm > >Scroll down a bit for the new applet, or click on the following: >http://mysite.verizon.net/cephalobus_alienus/sagnac/BallisticSagnac.htm#transients Still wrong. >Here are my comments on my web site concerning the new applet: > > One of the more creative of the crackpots in the sci.physics.* > newsgroups, Henri Wilson, suggested that my original applet, > which modeled the steady state operation of a Sagnac apparatus > under the assumptions of Ballistic Theory, was somehow flawed > because it could not model the effects of acceleration. Henri > wrote, "...you are completely overlooking the vital question > of what happens during an acceleration. The answer is, > 'everything'." > > Working through his muddled logic is rather difficult, but it > appears that his claim is that during acceleration, the > transient fringe displacements that all theories predict > (Ballistic, Relativistic, and Aetherist) persist even after > the acceleration phase of the Sagnac experiment has ended and > the system hasreached steady-state. > > This is, of course, nonsense. In the above simulation, the > Sagnac ring is pre-initialized with light waves from the > turntable at rest. After starting the simulation, changes in > the rotation rate of the turntable are allowed during the > first ten seconds. Click on "View Screen" to see how fringes > are formed on the photographic plate or screen. > > As a first experiment, I suggest letting the simulation run > for five seconds, then clicking once on the rotation rate > spinner (either up or down). After doing this, one one will > then see, to the right, a rapid, continuously increasing > displacement of the fringes until the total displacement > reaches slightly more than one fringe width. The fringes then > "snap back" to their original position (i.e. zero displacement) > since the light has had a chance to catch up. After reaching > steady state with a constant rotation rate, Ballistic Theory > predicts that the fringe displacement will be zero. > > Ballistic Theory is, of course, disproven once again. Give up Jerry. Your colleagues still cannot grasp the difference between 'the 'static emission point' and the 'moving source'. They have become psychologically resistant to reason because the fact that the emission point MOVES backwards in the rotating frame makes a complete mockery of all their previous sagnac arguments against BaTh. The truth is revealed at: http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/ringgyro.htm and: http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/toothwheel.exe It gives the right answer...who was that fellow, Ockham, anyway? >Jerry Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T) www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm
From: Androcles on 20 Oct 2007 19:44
"Dr. Henri Wilson" <HW@....> wrote in message news:tk0lh3l045j914i2bru14hvch37vst9abc(a)4ax.com... : On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 13:59:53 -0700, Jerry <Cephalobus_alienus(a)comcast.net> : wrote: : : >On Oct 16, 2:50 am, George Dishman <geo...(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: : >> On 15 Oct, 23:24, HW@....(Clueless Henri Wilson) wrote: : >> : >> > On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:52:37 +0100, "George Dishman" <geo...(a)briar.demon.co.uk> wrote: : > : >> > >Try to think that through Henry, I'm sure it will : >> > >give you some difficulty. : >> : >> > I have already George. Much of what you say is : >> > basically correct except that you are completely : >> > overlooking the vital question of what happens : >> > during an acceleration. : >> > The answer is, "everything". : >> : >> The fringes will vary in a complex way but there : >> is no memory in the system. Sagnac didn't switch : >> on the light bulb until the speed was stable so : >> what would have happened to fringes had he switched : >> on the bulb is moot, only the phase difference : >> while the bulb was on matters. : > : >I've survived Midterm Week! After getting home Friday, : >I decided to write a new applet to address Henri's : >misconceptions about how acceleration may affect the : >results. : > : >Original applet: : >http://mysite.verizon.net/cephalobus_alienus/sagnac/BallisticSagnac.htm : > : >Scroll down a bit for the new applet, or click on the following: : >http://mysite.verizon.net/cephalobus_alienus/sagnac/BallisticSagnac.htm#transients : : Still wrong. : : >Here are my comments on my web site concerning the new applet: : > : > One of the more creative of the crackpots in the sci.physics.* : > newsgroups, Henri Wilson, suggested that my original applet, : > which modeled the steady state operation of a Sagnac apparatus : > under the assumptions of Ballistic Theory, was somehow flawed : > because it could not model the effects of acceleration. Henri : > wrote, "...you are completely overlooking the vital question : > of what happens during an acceleration. The answer is, : > 'everything'." : > : > Working through his muddled logic is rather difficult, but it : > appears that his claim is that during acceleration, the : > transient fringe displacements that all theories predict : > (Ballistic, Relativistic, and Aetherist) persist even after : > the acceleration phase of the Sagnac experiment has ended and : > the system hasreached steady-state. : > : > This is, of course, nonsense. In the above simulation, the : > Sagnac ring is pre-initialized with light waves from the : > turntable at rest. After starting the simulation, changes in : > the rotation rate of the turntable are allowed during the : > first ten seconds. Click on "View Screen" to see how fringes : > are formed on the photographic plate or screen. : > : > As a first experiment, I suggest letting the simulation run : > for five seconds, then clicking once on the rotation rate : > spinner (either up or down). After doing this, one one will : > then see, to the right, a rapid, continuously increasing : > displacement of the fringes until the total displacement : > reaches slightly more than one fringe width. The fringes then : > "snap back" to their original position (i.e. zero displacement) : > since the light has had a chance to catch up. After reaching : > steady state with a constant rotation rate, Ballistic Theory : > predicts that the fringe displacement will be zero. : > : > Ballistic Theory is, of course, disproven once again. : : Give up Jerry. : Your colleagues still cannot grasp the difference between 'the 'static emission : point' and the 'moving source'. : They have become psychologically resistant to reason because the fact that the : emission point MOVES backwards in the rotating frame makes a complete mockery : of all their previous sagnac arguments against BaTh. : : The truth is revealed at: http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/ringgyro.htm : and: http://www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/toothwheel.exe : : It gives the right answer...who was that fellow, Ockham, anyway? There wasn't one. Ockham is in Surrey and William lived there. You have become psychologically resistant to reason because you are senile and cannot count. http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/inphase.gif http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/nophase.gif Give up, Wilson, the tick fairy cannot help you. |