Jihad needs scientists
in [Design]
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From: jmfbahciv on 6 Feb 2007 08:45 In article <eafab$45c764cf$49ecf88$8454(a)DIALUPUSA.NET>, unsettled <unsettled(a)nonsense.com> wrote: >Ken Smith wrote: > >> In article <eq764a$8qk_003(a)s1004.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>, >> <jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote: >> [....] >> >>>having to clear the funnel every 5'. I'm deathly afraid >>>of ice these days. >> >> >> http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=2&p=46633&cat=2,51676&ap=1 > >Thanks, that's excellent pricing. I had looked locally to >find prices 3X those on the web page. My frugality overcame >my fear of slipping. At these prices those lines no longer >cross before I get to them. > >BAH, since you don't have WWW handy, the page is a vendor >who sells slip-on over the shoe/boot device with hardened >metal points sticking downwards to grip ice providing >needed traction. These don't compete with normal clean >friction surfaces, but do make the best possible compromise >and at a reasonable price. Ah, spikes. The last time I had 3" of shiny smooth ice on the driveway, I crawled to the car and back again. You can't fall if you are already on the ground :-). /BAH
From: jmfbahciv on 6 Feb 2007 08:47 In article <eq8rjf$v7q$4(a)blue.rahul.net>, kensmith(a)green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) wrote: >In article <eafab$45c764cf$49ecf88$8454(a)DIALUPUSA.NET>, >unsettled <unsettled(a)nonsense.com> wrote: >>Ken Smith wrote: >> >>> In article <eq764a$8qk_003(a)s1004.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>, >>> <jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote: >>> [....] >>> >>>>having to clear the funnel every 5'. I'm deathly afraid >>>>of ice these days. >>> >>> >>> http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=2&p=46633&cat=2,51676&ap=1 >> >>Thanks, that's excellent pricing. I had looked locally to >>find prices 3X those on the web page. My frugality overcame >>my fear of slipping. At these prices those lines no longer >>cross before I get to them. > >Lee Valley does not sell on price. Check out some of their hand tools. >They have very nice stuff at moderately high prices. > >> >>BAH, since you don't have WWW handy, the page is a vendor >>who sells slip-on over the shoe/boot device with hardened >>metal points sticking downwards to grip ice providing >>needed traction. These don't compete with normal clean >>friction surfaces, but do make the best possible compromise >>and at a reasonable price. > >Don't get the ones that only go on the ball of the foot. You need the >heel spikes too. A common fall is to have your feet slip forwards. My common slippage is the heel going out from underneath. As long as I can keep stuff from freezing on the drive, I'm OK. There will come a day when today's coping methods won't work; I have backup plans for that time. /BAH
From: Tony Lance on 6 Feb 2007 08:56 Big Bertha Thing invite Cosmic Ray Series Possible Real World System Constructs http://web.onetel.com/~tonylance/invite.html Access page to 55K Zip File Astrophysics net ring access site Newsgroup Reviews including alt.politics.bush 301 files from the third battle of cyberspace. (part two) 60 Newsgroup postings were deleted, after 15 hours. There were claims of major hacker attack, which turned to abashed embarassment. It turned out that the NSP owner, had sent out a world-wide posting. It invited all users, who had forgotten their passwords, to just leave it blank. Then a new confirmation password would be sent. Cinderela was invited to the ball. Thank you, Tony Lance Big Bertha Thing format Anybody heard of the fly-paper trap? Where all the flies are collected, in an unsightly mess, hanging from the kitchen ceiling. The expensive version is the lizard with a long tongue, that retracts after each catch. Take an uncensored version of a usenet newsgroup, show the subject line of each thread header, with the total number of postings and the net number of postings after extracts. Put the total number of extracts, in the first line, at the top of the list of postings. Anyone wishing to search the extracts clicks on it and finds each person extracted with 2 lines each. The first line shows the number of thread headers and the second the number of replies. Further clicks go down to posting level. Extract everyone with more than 1000 postings on any single newsgroup, from all newsgroups. Examples of the fly-paper trap can be found on:- http://web.onetel.com/~tonylance/news.html http://web.onetel.com/~tonylance/want04.html Thank you, Tony Lance judemarie(a)bigberthathing.co.uk
From: unsettled on 6 Feb 2007 09:00 jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > In article <45C80196.8DA7B028(a)hotmail.com>, > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >>unsettled wrote: >> >> >>>Eeyore wrote: >>> >>>>unsettled wrote: >>>> >>>>>Eeyore wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>unsettled wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Eeyore wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>>>Look at the difficulty in getting kids to study science now for > > example. I'm > >>>>>>>>sure the kids are right to tend to avoid it since they've seen so many >>>>>>>>'scientific' jobs disappear. >>>>> >>>>>>>Spoken like a tech. Science isn't a "job", it is a calling. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Perhaps you meant to say "engineering". >>>>> >>>>>>I used the term science quite intentionally. Hence the quote marks. Not > > least > >>>>>>because that's what politicans here call it. Engineering has become a > > dirty word. > >>>>>>There's another problem. >>>>> >>>>>So what you actually meant is technological jobs? >>>> >>>>That covers a very broad range. >>>> >>>> >>>>>I was told that a man whose job related education consisted of an solely > > of an > >>>>>apprenticeship at Rolls Royce (automobiles) was "an engineer" I almost > > fell out of > >>>>>my chair. His "maths" consisted of what we call "shop math" over and > > above the > >>>>>regular schooling all children get. >>>> >>>>I'd say that person was perhaaps a technician but the it's become popular > > for people to > >>>>be given more important sounding names for their positions these days. >>>> >>>>Below the technician in an aero engine company would be a mechanic / > > fitter > >>>>historically. >>>> >>>>I have difficulty explaining to 'average ppl' today what an electronics > > design engineer > >>>>does. Typically I'm asked if that means I solder things ! When I say I > > design circuitry > >>>>and enter it on a CAD system most ppl look very perplexed. If I mention > > software, > ppl > >>>tend to ask if that means I do phone support. >>> >>>> >>>>>>>>Also, as for Blair's idea that we can do 'R&D' instead of > > manufacturing, he's > >>>>>>>>barking mad. Doesn't he know who it is who needs that R&D ? >>>>> >>>>>>>Once again spoken like a tech. The future needs today's R&D. >>>>> >>>>>>Of course it's required by companies. Now explain how a country with > > little > >>>>>>manufacturing industry can support a large R&D industry. >>>>> >>>>>Immediately switch from being a socialist economy to a capitalism. >>>> >>>>Would you care to elaborate how you see socialism and capitalism fitting > > into the > above > >>>? In other words which you associate with what ? >> >>Lack of answer noted. >> >> >> >>>>>R&D is an investment just like any other. How can you *not* afford that? >>>> >>>> >>>>I agree in principle but who wants ( can use ) the R&D if there aren't > > any > >>>>manufacturing companies ? >>> >>>The product of R&D is an asset like any other. >> >>I know. You still need customers though. R&D isn't a freely tradeable > > commodity like oil or > >>corn. > > > No. It is not. No one can predict the results that an R&D group > will produce. In the R&D context, which you are talking about-- > this is not generally science research--, the group will have > 1000 ideas but only 1 will be profitable over the short term. My experience was different. The large number of ideas is of no consequence. The number that make it into prototype and testing is. The conceptually brand new system I worked on in 1967 was ending its first production run in 1977 and is today in use as the 4th generation direct descendant with the next generation in late stage prototype testing. Each generation became simpler, lighter, and more efficient while providing all the necessary effectiveness, which also changed over the years as user experience demands. Today's system still looks and behaves a lot like what we developed in 1967.
From: unsettled on 6 Feb 2007 09:13
jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > In article <de959$45c60d58$cdd084ad$929(a)DIALUPUSA.NET>, > unsettled <unsettled(a)nonsense.com> wrote: > >>jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: >> >> >>>In article <a34df$45c5f1c8$cdd0859a$311(a)DIALUPUSA.NET>, >>> unsettled <unsettled(a)nonsense.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>In article <aK2dnURuwa_HQ1nYnZ2dnUVZ8sSrnZ2d(a)pipex.net>, >>>>> "T Wake" <usenet.es7at(a)gishpuppy.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message >>>>>>news:eq1u5g$8ss_004(a)s939.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>In article <9c9e$45c38013$4fe768e$12122(a)DIALUPUSA.NET>, >>>>>>>unsettled <unsettled(a)nonsense.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Eeyore wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>"T Wake" <usenet.es7at(a)gishpuppy.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>They [Muslims] can't even buy >>>>>>>>>>>>shoes unless the shoe has been approved by the clerics (I think >>>>>>>>>>>>those are the people who do this work). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Really? I can find no example of this being true. Can you support > > the > >>>>>>>claim >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>that Islam dictates what shoes people can wear? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Of the three Abraham-based religions, only Christianity doesn't >>>>>>>>>>have rules about living styles. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>More obfuscation. Did you take a course in not answering the question >>>>>>>>>btw ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Can you support the claim that Islam dictates what shoes people can > > wear > >>>>>>>>>? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Graham >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/072.sbt.h > > tm > >>>l >>> >>> >>>>>>>Thank you. I can't get out today to check the blurb; but I'll trust >>>>>>>your judgement. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>This creates an interesting quandary. It appears from this, that you > > (BAH) > >>>>>>had no idea where (if anywhere) in the Koran the requirement for shoes to >>> >>>be >>> >>> >>>>>>approved by a cleric existed. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>The heads of religion decide what people can eat, wear, use, >>>>>and make. They have been in control from the start of Islam. >>>>>Their peoples are now getting exposed to Western media. These >>>>>people see stuff they would like to wear or use or buy or make. >>>>>Now they are the ones who are making the decisions and not >>>>>the clerics. The clerics who are sensitive to loss of this >>>>>kind of oversight power, recognize, rightly, that Western >>>>>civilization is encroaching into their territory. The most >>>>>normal decision is to decide to destroy the threat to their >>>>>power. >>>>> >>>>>The one advantage that these people have is they do not >>>>>insist on instant gratification; they think in centuries, >>>>>not minutes. >>>> >>>>>>That alone raises the question of why *you* were so convinced the rule >>>>>>existed - was it simply something you heard in the past and assumed it > > was > >>>>>>true? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It is based on everything I've read. It is based on how long >>>>>it took for the Ottoman clerics to "approve" Western civilization >>>>>innovations, e.g. printing press. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Now, the secondary quandary is that you *assume* the link supports your >>>>>>argument, without going there or checking. For all you know it could be >>>>>>nonsense or it could be something which unsettled thinks is relevant but >>>>>>still doesn't support your argument. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Unsettled has passed most of my rationale tests. We don't agree on >>>>>a lot of things but he has his feet planted in reality. >>>> >>>> >>>>Thanks. >>>> >>>>Now, about that secondary quandary. If one reads the web page >>>>carefully it discusses the fact that the prophet wore sandals >>>>with two straps. (Did you folks miss that?) To the western >>>>mind that doesn't mean much, but to the Muslim it is the >>>>model to be followed, IMO a directive. >>> >>> >>>Western fashions come and go at the drop of a haute couteur >>>hiccup. All through Islamic history, the clothes people wore >>>were dictated. Some had political reasons like banning >>>the styles that was dictated by your predecessor but others >>>seems to keep the infidels' influcence away from the the pure >>>Mulsim. That's control, serious control. >>> >>>And that's just textiles and shoes. >>> >>> >>>>>>Can *you* provide any evidence that the Koran dictates what shoes people >>> >>>can >>> >>> >>>>>>buy? >>>>>> >>>>>>Are the strictures laid down in that link any more prohibitive than those >>> >>>in >>> >>> >>>>>>the Old Testament? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I suspect that the Jews who are very strict have similar rules of >>>>>living styles. The difference is that they haven't blown up trade >>>>>centers for the purpose of forcing the rest of the world to their >>>>>adapt to their living style. >>>> >>>>Historically that's not exactly true. When Jericho was >>>>captured the Jews killed all the inhabitants without >>>>mercy, even though many begged to live a life of slavery >>>>instead of death. >>>> >>>>But, if we look at your statement in modern day context, >>> >>> >>>I think that's what I was talking about. I've tended to lose >>>my way among the thread drifts lately. >>> >>> >>> >>>>it seems the older the religion the less interested it >>>>is in converts. >>> >>> >>>I may have a quibble with this. >> >> >> >> >>Talk to me about Judiasm's missionaries spreading the >>word and seeking to convert people. > > > I haven't learned everything about Judiasm. I thought the > religion didn't put much emphasis on proselytizing; the > stuff I've read gave me the impression that emphasis was to > not do this. Precisely. Judaism is not an easy religion to join. >>Does Christianity have fewer missionaries than Islam? >>I don't know, but I'd guess yes. > I would guess no. I see no evidence of missionary concepts in > Islam. Their creed says that, if there is a mosque in a country, > that country is Islam. And I don't know where I read this; it > was in the last three years but I'm not going to paw through 10,000 > pages to find it. How do you suppose they grew from 1 member at the time of Mohammed till today when they're the largest religious group in the world considering that everyone during the entire period already had some sort of religion? >>>>Islam is now ~1400 years old. We can look at what >>>>Christianity was doing about the year 1400. Much of >>>>what was going on wasn't very pretty. Luther was born >>>>in 1483. If the evolution of Islam tracks that of >>>>Christianity at all, their great reformer should be >>>>coming along any time now. >>> >>> >>>I don't think it will be a reformer in the religious sense. I >>>do think it will involve getting their Shariah updated to the >>>last century. it hasn't changed in 300 (I may be off with that >>>est.) years. Since then the Industrial Revolution has happened >>>and the world is hip deep in the Information Revolution. Even >>>if their coda gets updated to the 20th century they'll be way >>>behind. >>Give Luther's reforms in a context beyond the obvious religious >>concerns of the day. The financial and political ramifications >>were tremendous. > Sure they were. I can't see a single man doing this job. It always starts with one. Consider Ghandi's impact in addition to Luther's. > First of all the religion started out as two sects which > were created to put an end to their first political war. Sorry, I don't understand this premise and how it fits so I can't reasonably comment on the rest. I need some additional context. > There's no way either sect will accept changes from a man > of the other's faith. These people are still disagreeing > about who inherits the seat of power. How un-Western thinking > is that? |