Latin, the Enlightenment, and science
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From: DKleinecke on 28 Dec 2009 21:54 On Dec 28, 11:00 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > On Dec 28, 10:31 am, António Marques <antonio...(a)sapo.pt> wrote: > > > > > Peter T. Daniels wrote (28-12-2009 12:29): > > > > On Dec 28, 5:01 am, "Brian M. Scott"<b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: > > >> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:40:47 +1300, PaulJK > > >> <paul.kr...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in > > >> <news:hh9nbf$ejq$1(a)news.eternal-september.org> in > > >> sci.math,sci.physics,sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.philosophy: > > >>> Peter T. Daniels wrote: > > >>>> On Dec 27, 3:49 pm, "Brian M. Scott"<b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: > > >>>> Whatever you recently did to "fix" your encoding has > > >>>> resulted in blank spaces where you typed funny letters. > > >>> No, it's posted with Content-Type: text/plain; > > >>> charset="iso-8859-1" I don't think the problem was caused > > >>> by his last mod farther down the list of formats. > > > >> It's almost certainly a problem with Google Groups. If > > >> Peter would break down and get a decent news client, he'd > > >> not have the problem. > > > > Yet somehow Google Groups managed to show the letters a few minutes > > > later. > > > > None of the newsgroup-snobs has ever explained what's _wrong_ with > > > google groups. > > > I don't see that there is much wrong with GG from the POV of who doesn't use > > GG (whereas Outlook has a number of bugs, after all these years, that can > > disrupt other people's experience of the 'news'). The problem with GG is > > that it's a pain to use, though I don't know of any web interface that > > isn't, and the occasional weird behaviour - the inconsistency you mention > > above being a good example.- > > How is it a pain to use? I go to the url for "My Groups," it shows me > the list of the 5 groups I visit and whether there are any new > messages since last time; I click on a group name and it gives me a > list of the last 30 threads most recently posted to, with the number > of new messages since last time; I click on a thread and it opens the > message-tree on the left and the earliest unread message on the right. > What could be a pain about that? How could some other interface do it > any more simply? I don't use the URL. Up in the upper left corner there is a list of possible destinations ending in "more". Click on that to get more choices one of which is "Groups" and click again. There are probably lots of other ways to get to "My Groups".
From: Harlan Messinger on 28 Dec 2009 22:31 Brian M. Scott wrote: > On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:05:09 -0800 (PST), DKleinecke > <dkleinecke(a)gmail.com> wrote in > <news:e1f26d37-f0bf-4a6d-9aa3-9f3ee47a6f08(a)o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> > in > sci.math,sci.physics,sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.philosophy: > >> On Dec 27, 10:53 pm, "benli...(a)ihug.co.nz" <benli...(a)ihug.co.nz> >> wrote: > > [...] > >>> ... I am more than ever at a loss to understand how any >>> linguist can maintain with a straight face that dh/th >>> are in "complementary distribution". > >> It offends them that there are no minial pairs. > > Tthere are, and they know it: <thigh> ~ <thy>, and for many > people <either> ~ <ether>. They dispose of these on other > grounds. Sooth-soothe, teeth-teethe. Thayer-there (in Texas)?
From: Peter T. Daniels on 28 Dec 2009 23:14 On Dec 28, 5:47 pm, António Marques <ento...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 28 Dez, 21:51, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > > On Dec 28, 2:55 pm, António Marques <antonio...(a)sapo.pt> wrote: > > > Peter T. Daniels wrote (28-12-2009 19:00): > > > > On Dec 28, 10:31 am, António Marques<antonio...(a)sapo.pt> wrote: > > > >> Peter T. Daniels wrote (28-12-2009 12:29): > > > >>> On Dec 28, 5:01 am, "Brian M. Scott"<b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: > > > >>>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:40:47 +1300, PaulJK > > > >>>> <paul.kr...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in > > > >>>> <news:hh9nbf$ejq$1(a)news.eternal-september.org> in > > > >>>> sci.math,sci.physics,sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.philosophy: > > > >>>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote: > > > >>>>>> On Dec 27, 3:49 pm, "Brian M. Scott"<b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: > > > >>>>>> Whatever you recently did to "fix" your encoding has > > > >>>>>> resulted in blank spaces where you typed funny letters. > > > >>>>> No, it's posted with Content-Type: text/plain; > > > >>>>> charset="iso-8859-1" I don't think the problem was caused > > > >>>>> by his last mod farther down the list of formats. > > > > >>>> It's almost certainly a problem with Google Groups. If > > > >>>> Peter would break down and get a decent news client, he'd > > > >>>> not have the problem. > > > > >>> Yet somehow Google Groups managed to show the letters a few minutes > > > >>> later. > > > > >>> None of the newsgroup-snobs has ever explained what's _wrong_ with > > > >>> google groups. > > > > >> I don't see that there is much wrong with GG from the POV of who doesn't use > > > >> GG (whereas Outlook has a number of bugs, after all these years, that can > > > >> disrupt other people's experience of the 'news'). The problem with GG is > > > >> that it's a pain to use, though I don't know of any web interface that > > > >> isn't, and the occasional weird behaviour - the inconsistency you mention > > > >> above being a good example.- > > > > > How is it a pain to use? I go to the url for "My Groups," it shows me > > > > the list of the 5 groups I visit and whether there are any new > > > > messages since last time; I click on a group name and it gives me a > > > > list of the last 30 threads most recently posted to, with the number > > > > of new messages since last time; I click on a thread and it opens the > > > > message-tree on the left and the earliest unread message on the right. > > > > What could be a pain about that? How could some other interface do it > > > > any more simply? > > > > Well, compare mine. I open 'Mail & Newsgroups', it shows me there are 219 > > > unread messages on sci.lang. I click on sci.lang, it opens the message-tree, > > > same > > Not the same - GG isn't instantaneous. It's as close to instantaneous as can be detected by the human user! > > > showing only unread messages. I see a lot of them are in 'Magdalenian > > > different -- gg shows who/what the new messages are responding to > > Oh, mine can too. I just don't care for that. > > > > experiment (continuation)'. I press K and suddenly 'Magdalenian experiment > > > (continuation)' disappears for good, lowering the number of unread messages > > > to 170 (it will never appear again unless I want to). Then, I see most of > > > if I never click on the Magdalenian thread, I never see more about it > > tnan how many unread messages there are since the last time I visited > > groups (not how many messages I've never read -- that would be in the > > hundreds). I look at the thread if Panu has posted something. > > I'll admit it, I only don't kill some threads because there's a chance > someone known may post something to it some time. > > I like to look at the screen and only see what I choose to. That, in a nutshell, is the hugest problem of The Computer and the internets in general. It's almost impossible to come upon something serendipitously -- as by leafing through a newspaper or magazine, or wandering through the stacks of the library or bookstore. I cannot understand how scholarship can be carried out in Europe, where the closed-stack library is ubiquitous. > > > the messages are old and in threads that aren't likely to be interesting. I > > > select them all using ctrl and shift, press R, and they're all marked as > > > read. That leaves some 30-odd messages I can read sequentially by pressing > > > space to advance one page at a time. All this happens instantly. And I can > > > different -- I scroll through messages 10 at a time. The unread > > messages are shown in full, the old ones just as headers until I click > > on one (or on "Expand All," which shows all 10.) > > Yeah, it's not unreasonable. > > > > reply simultaneously to all the messages I want, save replies if they're not > > > finished yet, reread how many messages I wish, and so on, not having to > > > worry about anything 'going away'. And in recent times I've gone as far as > > > creating some filters to automatically delete messages from certain > > > uninteresting folks so I don't lose any time looking at them (I've resisted > > > doing that for a long time, but alas it had to be).- > > > No killfiling here. > > > Regarding the minor differences identified, it seems to me GG handles > > them better. > > You *do* seem to like it, at least. You did use a real newsreader for > years before and you've had the chance to revert to it.- Netscape came with my Mac 15 years ago -- on dial-up. I don't think I have a chance to revert to it.
From: Peter T. Daniels on 28 Dec 2009 23:16 On Dec 28, 9:54 pm, DKleinecke <dkleine...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Dec 28, 11:00 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...(a)verizon.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Dec 28, 10:31 am, António Marques <antonio...(a)sapo.pt> wrote: > > > > Peter T. Daniels wrote (28-12-2009 12:29): > > > > > On Dec 28, 5:01 am, "Brian M. Scott"<b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: > > > >> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:40:47 +1300, PaulJK > > > >> <paul.kr...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in > > > >> <news:hh9nbf$ejq$1(a)news.eternal-september.org> in > > > >> sci.math,sci.physics,sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.philosophy: > > > >>> Peter T. Daniels wrote: > > > >>>> On Dec 27, 3:49 pm, "Brian M. Scott"<b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: > > > >>>> Whatever you recently did to "fix" your encoding has > > > >>>> resulted in blank spaces where you typed funny letters. > > > >>> No, it's posted with Content-Type: text/plain; > > > >>> charset="iso-8859-1" I don't think the problem was caused > > > >>> by his last mod farther down the list of formats. > > > > >> It's almost certainly a problem with Google Groups. If > > > >> Peter would break down and get a decent news client, he'd > > > >> not have the problem. > > > > > Yet somehow Google Groups managed to show the letters a few minutes > > > > later. > > > > > None of the newsgroup-snobs has ever explained what's _wrong_ with > > > > google groups. > > > > I don't see that there is much wrong with GG from the POV of who doesn't use > > > GG (whereas Outlook has a number of bugs, after all these years, that can > > > disrupt other people's experience of the 'news'). The problem with GG is > > > that it's a pain to use, though I don't know of any web interface that > > > isn't, and the occasional weird behaviour - the inconsistency you mention > > > above being a good example.- > > > How is it a pain to use? I go to the url for "My Groups," it shows me > > the list of the 5 groups I visit and whether there are any new > > messages since last time; I click on a group name and it gives me a > > list of the last 30 threads most recently posted to, with the number > > of new messages since last time; I click on a thread and it opens the > > message-tree on the left and the earliest unread message on the right. > > What could be a pain about that? How could some other interface do it > > any more simply? > > I don't use the URL. Up in the upper left corner there is a list of > possible destinations ending in "more". Click on that to get more > choices one of which is "Groups" and click again. There are probably > lots of other ways to get to "My Groups".- That's if you're starting from a google screen (which I'm not). I do usually use that to get to google books, though. The way Verizon Yahoo IE works, when I open a new tab there's a dropdown with the last dozen or so websites I've visited, so I just scroll down to groups.google.com, and it opens to the My Groups page.
From: Peter T. Daniels on 28 Dec 2009 23:19
On Dec 28, 5:01 pm, Adam Funk <a24...(a)ducksburg.com> wrote: > On 2009-12-28, Peter T. Daniels wrote: > > > On Dec 28, 5:01 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: > >> It's almost certainly a problem with Google Groups. If > >> Peter would break down and get a decent news client, he'd > >> not have the problem. > > > Yet somehow Google Groups managed to show the letters a few minutes > > later. > > > None of the newsgroup-snobs has ever explained what's _wrong_ with > > google groups. > > Not true. You just don't like the explanations. I've never _seen_ any explanations. Antonio just gave some, and it turns out our two systems are all but equivalent. > http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=120829004500 > > http://improve-usenet.org/ Those don't look like postings to the newsgroups by people including you who like to impugn google groups. > > Just as the internet snobs never used to explain what was wrong with > > AOL. > > That's good, coming from someone who regularly impugns the > qualifications and right to post of people he disagrees with. > > > (I think it was nice of them to be constantly sending free blank > > diskettes to people.) > > As if we didn't produce too much landfill already? Should I have _not used_ the diskettes they sent me, but instead gone out and bought a box of new ones? |