Latin, the Enlightenment, and science
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From: Peter Moylan on 29 Dec 2009 08:53 On 30/12/09 00:41, James Hogg wrote: > Peter Moylan wrote: >> On 29/12/09 13:42, Brian M. Scott wrote: >>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:05:09 -0800 (PST), DKleinecke >>> <dkleinecke(a)gmail.com> wrote in >>> <news:e1f26d37-f0bf-4a6d-9aa3-9f3ee47a6f08(a)o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> >>> in >>> sci.math,sci.physics,sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.philosophy: >>> >>>> On Dec 27, 10:53 pm, "benli...(a)ihug.co.nz" <benli...(a)ihug.co.nz> >>>> wrote: >>> [...] >>> >>>>> ... I am more than ever at a loss to understand how any >>>>> linguist can maintain with a straight face that dh/th >>>>> are in "complementary distribution". >>>> It offends them that there are no minial pairs. >>> Tthere are, and they know it: <thigh> ~ <thy>, and for many >>> people <either> ~ <ether>. They dispose of these on other >>> grounds. >> >> You're talking modern English now. Those examples wouldn't have worked >> in the days when eth and thorn were part of a writer's alphabet. > > The problem is that eth and thorn could be used interchangeably in Old > English. > Hmm. Yes, I see your point. If one had been used for the voiced sound and the other for unvoiced we might have had a clue about how people used to pronounce things. As it is, we're a bit in the dark. -- Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page.
From: jmfbahciv on 29 Dec 2009 09:05 PaulJK wrote: > Peter T. Daniels wrote: >> On Dec 28, 5:01 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: >>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:40:47 +1300, PaulJK >>> <paul.kr...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in >>> <news:hh9nbf$ejq$1(a)news.eternal-september.org> in >>> sci.math,sci.physics,sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.philosophy: >>> >>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote: >>>>> On Dec 27, 3:49 pm, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: >>> [...] >>> >>>>>> True, though some linguists would argue that the [ ]~[ ] >>>>>> distinction still isn't phonemic, since the distribution is >>>>>> predictable (albeit the conditioning isn't phonological). >>> [...] >>> >>>>> Whatever you recently did to "fix" your encoding has >>>>> resulted in blank spaces where you typed funny letters. >>>> No, it's posted with Content-Type: text/plain; >>>> charset="iso-8859-1" I don't think the problem was caused >>>> by his last mod farther down the list of formats. >>> It's almost certainly a problem with Google Groups. If >>> Peter would break down and get a decent news client, he'd >>> not have the problem. >> Yet somehow Google Groups managed to show the letters a few minutes >> later. >> >> None of the newsgroup-snobs has ever explained what's _wrong_ with >> google groups. > > Do you realize you sound like Franz Gneadiger? > > Most of the users of Usenet client utilities have tried Google > and worked out their own reasons for not using it. The reasons > are many and varied. Some of them have also been discussed in > this group over the past several years. There are specific Usenet > groups for people wanting to talk pros and cons of various client > utilities. > > You yourself have problems with google groups. Yet, like Franz, > you stick to your belief that somebody else is causing them. Well, from his description of the behaviour, which wasn't adequately detailed, it sounded like he has different ISO character set assignments for each thread level. I would guess that he has no default set but uses the character set described in the header. If it is absent, the default is the generic standard (don't recall the precise spec of the name). but that's just a guess, albeit and educated guess. > >> Just as the internet snobs never used to explain what was wrong with >> AOL. (I think it was nice of them to be constantly sending free blank >> diskettes to people.) > > Internet snobs usually discuss and explain technical aspects of > usenet and internet in user groups dedicated to such discussions. > There are zillions of them dedicated to many relevant subjects. > pjk > <grin> I fixed some of those assumptions about AOL users. /BAH
From: jmfbahciv on 29 Dec 2009 09:07 Joachim Pense wrote: > PaulJK (in sci.lang): > >> garabik-news-2005-05(a)kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk wrote: >>> In sci.lang Peter T. Daniels <grammatim(a)verizon.net> wrote: >>>> Is "continent" a technical term in geography? >>> Dunno. It is, however, widely used. >>> >>>> Was "planet" a technical term in astronomy? >>> Yes. Not formally defined (except by enumeration), though. >> I don't know about modern astronomy, but in the old days >> a "planet" was a well established term for all "wanderers". >> They were all heavenly bodies (apart from the Sun?) that kept >> constantly changing their position on the celestial globe. Even >> today my Cartes du Ciel lists the Moon as one of the planets. >> pjk >> > > Was the sun always excluded, or did it count as a planet, too? > The sun doesn't wander. /BAH
From: Greg Neill on 29 Dec 2009 09:09 jmfbahciv wrote: > Joachim Pense wrote: >> PaulJK (in sci.lang): >> >>> garabik-news-2005-05(a)kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk wrote: >>>> In sci.lang Peter T. Daniels <grammatim(a)verizon.net> wrote: >>>>> Is "continent" a technical term in geography? >>>> Dunno. It is, however, widely used. >>>> >>>>> Was "planet" a technical term in astronomy? >>>> Yes. Not formally defined (except by enumeration), though. >>> I don't know about modern astronomy, but in the old days >>> a "planet" was a well established term for all "wanderers". >>> They were all heavenly bodies (apart from the Sun?) that kept >>> constantly changing their position on the celestial globe. Even >>> today my Cartes du Ciel lists the Moon as one of the planets. >>> pjk >>> >> >> Was the sun always excluded, or did it count as a planet, too? >> > The sun doesn't wander. From a geocentric viewpoint it certainly does; It circles the Earth daily and moves north and south with the seasons.
From: António Marques on 29 Dec 2009 09:16
jmfbahciv wrote (29-12-2009 13:39): > António Marques wrote: >> Peter T. Daniels wrote (28-12-2009 12:29): >>> On Dec 28, 5:01 am, "Brian M. Scott"<b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: >>>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:40:47 +1300, PaulJK >>>> <paul.kr...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in >>>> <news:hh9nbf$ejq$1(a)news.eternal-september.org> in >>>> sci.math,sci.physics,sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.philosophy: >>>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote: >>>>>> On Dec 27, 3:49 pm, "Brian M. Scott"<b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: >>>>>> Whatever you recently did to "fix" your encoding has >>>>>> resulted in blank spaces where you typed funny letters. >>>>> No, it's posted with Content-Type: text/plain; >>>>> charset="iso-8859-1" I don't think the problem was caused >>>>> by his last mod farther down the list of formats. >>>> >>>> It's almost certainly a problem with Google Groups. If >>>> Peter would break down and get a decent news client, he'd >>>> not have the problem. >>> >>> Yet somehow Google Groups managed to show the letters a few minutes >>> later. >>> >>> None of the newsgroup-snobs has ever explained what's _wrong_ with >>> google groups. >> >> I don't see that there is much wrong with GG from the POV of who >> doesn't use GG (whereas Outlook has a number of bugs, after all these >> years, that can disrupt other people's experience of the 'news'). The >> problem with GG is that it's a pain to use, though I don't know of any >> web interface that isn't, and the occasional weird behaviour - the >> inconsistency you mention above being a good example. > > I've been using Seamonkey which is web-based. Uh? |