Latin, the Enlightenment, and science
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From: Adam Funk on 29 Dec 2009 16:02 On 2009-12-28, Peter T. Daniels wrote: > On Dec 27, 11:18 pm, "sjdevn...(a)yahoo.com" <sjdevn...(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: >> Just in my experience, it's about 50/50 whether it's pronounced in a >> horribly mangled semi-phonetic manner or whether it's vaguely like >> "Gerta" but with a more elongated German-style oe first syllable and >> at most a partially vocalized "r"--I wouldn't call "Goethe" and >> "Gerta" homophones. The horribly mangled version is basically "Geth", >> which rhymes with "death".- > > Never heard that one. The street in Chicago (next to Schiller) is go- > thee (voiceless th). AIUI, "Drakestraße" in Berlin is commonly pronounced /'drak@"Stras@/ although it should be /'dre(j)k"Stras@/ after Sir Francis Drake (I don't recall why a street in Berlin is named after him, but I used to know someone who lived nearby and told me this). -- ....the reason why so many professional artists drink a lot is not necessarily very much to do with the artistic temperament, etc. It is simply that they can afford to, because they can normally take a large part of a day off to deal with the ravages. [Amis _On Drink_]
From: António Marques on 29 Dec 2009 16:24 Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote (29-12-2009 19:45): > If anyone doubted whether the difference between f and v was phonemic > one could think of endless examples to show that it was, including some > very common words like "life" and "live" (adjective). So there does seem > to be something special about the two th sounds. Is there any mechanism > that could explain why minimal pairs are so rare? Is this so different from the case with german ch? (It is different in a quantitative sense, inasmuch as some speakers undoubtedly do have one ch phoneme while others may have two; but it's similar inasmuch as it's a borderline case.)
From: António Marques on 29 Dec 2009 16:29 Nathan Sanders wrote (29-12-2009 20:49): > There are plenty of near-minimal pairs for /T/ and /D/ (some depending > on dialect): earthy/worthy, author/bother, thin/then (a true minimal > pair for US Southerners), thin/this, thank/than, etc. Earthy/worthy being a very good one since the words belong to the same specific class (not only both are referents, both are adjectives).
From: António Marques on 29 Dec 2009 16:31 Nathan Sanders wrote (29-12-2009 20:49): > /D/ and /T/ are the second and third rarest consonant phonemes in > English respectively (about 0.1% and 0.3% by type frequency), and > since words can be rather long in English, the probability of a > minimal pair existing between /T/ and /D/ is very small. If only one of the were rare, of course, that wouldn't be an argument. It's the fact of both being rare that makes it ponderous.
From: Brian M. Scott on 29 Dec 2009 16:39
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:49:20 -0500, Nathan Sanders <nathansanders(a)aol.com> wrote in <news:nathansanders-B6B9FC.15492029122009(a)88-136-209-74.adslgp.cegetel.net> in sci.math,sci.physics,sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.philosophy: [...] > The rarest consonant is /Z/ (0.07%), and minimal pairs > between /Z/ and /T/ or /D/ are difficult to find, if not > impossible (I can't think of any off the top of my head, > because the number of words with /Z/ is so small to > begin with). He can pleasure a plethora of women? <g> <Leather> and <leisure> work for some speakers. To go with <measure> the OED has <mether> (with [�]), chiefly Irish English and chiefly historical: 'A wooden vessel used for measuring liquids; a square wooden drinking vessel, freq. used as a measure of liquor. Also (Sc.): a similar vessel used for holding or measuring grain (rare).' The best I can do for [�] is a nomen agentis <oather> 'one who oaths' and <osier>. <Oather> is a legitimate though practically non-existent formation from the verb 'to impose an oath on'; I have seen it in some sort of gaming context. I take that back: I've seen <mether> 'one who uses crystal meth'. Brian |