Latin, the Enlightenment, and science
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From: PaulJK on 29 Dec 2009 21:27 jmfbahciv wrote: > PaulJK wrote: >> Peter T. Daniels wrote: >>> On Dec 28, 5:01 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: >>>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:40:47 +1300, PaulJK >>>> <paul.kr...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in >>>> <news:hh9nbf$ejq$1(a)news.eternal-september.org> in >>>> sci.math,sci.physics,sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.philosophy: >>>> >>>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote: >>>>>> On Dec 27, 3:49 pm, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: [...] >>>> >>>>>>> True, though some linguists would argue that the [ ]~[ ] >>>>>>> distinction still isn't phonemic, since the distribution is >>>>>>> predictable (albeit the conditioning isn't phonological). >>>> [...] >>>> >>>>>> Whatever you recently did to "fix" your encoding has >>>>>> resulted in blank spaces where you typed funny letters. >>>>> No, it's posted with Content-Type: text/plain; >>>>> charset="iso-8859-1" I don't think the problem was caused >>>>> by his last mod farther down the list of formats. >>>> It's almost certainly a problem with Google Groups. If >>>> Peter would break down and get a decent news client, he'd >>>> not have the problem. >>> Yet somehow Google Groups managed to show the letters a few minutes >>> later. >>> >>> None of the newsgroup-snobs has ever explained what's _wrong_ with >>> google groups. >> >> Do you realize you sound like Franz Gneadiger? >> >> Most of the users of Usenet client utilities have tried Google >> and worked out their own reasons for not using it. The reasons >> are many and varied. Some of them have also been discussed in >> this group over the past several years. There are specific Usenet >> groups for people wanting to talk pros and cons of various client >> utilities. >> >> You yourself have problems with google groups. Yet, like Franz, >> you stick to your belief that somebody else is causing them. > > Well, from his description of the behaviour, which wasn't > adequately detailed, it sounded like he has different ISO > character set assignments for each thread level. I would > guess that he has no default set but uses the character > set described in the header. If it is absent, the default > is the generic standard (don't recall the precise spec of the > name). > > but that's just a guess, albeit and educated guess. Not being able to see how precisely is his machine and Google i/f set up (and he aparently not being able to describe it), there is nohing more that one can do, but guess. Your guess seems to me to be a good one. It would explain how sometimes he sees chars with diacritics and sometimes just spaces giving him the impression that it's something the posters do, not his google i/face. >>> Just as the internet snobs never used to explain what was wrong with >>> AOL. (I think it was nice of them to be constantly sending free blank >>> diskettes to people.) >> >> Internet snobs usually discuss and explain technical aspects of >> usenet and internet in user groups dedicated to such discussions. >> There are zillions of them dedicated to many relevant subjects. >> pjk >> > > <grin> I fixed some of those assumptions about AOL users. > > /BAH
From: Peter T. Daniels on 29 Dec 2009 23:46 On Dec 29, 8:51 pm, Peter Moylan <gro.nalyomp(a)retep> wrote: > On 30/12/09 07:19, Peter T. Daniels wrote: > > > On Dec 29, 2:45 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acorn...(a)ibsm.cnrs-mrs.fr> > > wrote: > >> If anyone doubted whether the difference between f and v was phonemic > >> one could think of endless examples to show that it was, including some > >> very common words like "life" and "live" (adjective). So there does > >> seem to be something special about the two th sounds. Is there any > >> mechanism that could explain why minimal pairs are so rare? > > > The sounds themselves are rare. > > You just managed to fit two of them into a five-word sentence. Do you really not know the difference between type and token? between paradigmatic and syntagmatic?
From: Peter T. Daniels on 29 Dec 2009 23:51 On Dec 29, 9:27 pm, "PaulJK" <paul.kr...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > jmfbahciv wrote: > > PaulJK wrote: > >> Peter T. Daniels wrote: > >>> On Dec 28, 5:01 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: > >>>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:40:47 +1300, PaulJK > >>>> <paul.kr...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in > >>>> <news:hh9nbf$ejq$1(a)news.eternal-september.org> in > >>>> sci.math,sci.physics,sci.lang,alt.usage.english,alt.philosophy: > > >>>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote: > >>>>>> On Dec 27, 3:49 pm, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...(a)csuohio.edu> wrote: [...] > > >>>>>>> True, though some linguists would argue that the [ ]~[ ] > >>>>>>> distinction still isn't phonemic, since the distribution is > >>>>>>> predictable (albeit the conditioning isn't phonological). > >>>> [...] > > >>>>>> Whatever you recently did to "fix" your encoding has > >>>>>> resulted in blank spaces where you typed funny letters. > >>>>> No, it's posted with Content-Type: text/plain; > >>>>> charset="iso-8859-1" I don't think the problem was caused > >>>>> by his last mod farther down the list of formats. > >>>> It's almost certainly a problem with Google Groups. If > >>>> Peter would break down and get a decent news client, he'd > >>>> not have the problem. > >>> Yet somehow Google Groups managed to show the letters a few minutes > >>> later. > > >>> None of the newsgroup-snobs has ever explained what's _wrong_ with > >>> google groups. > > >> Do you realize you sound like Franz Gneadiger? > > >> Most of the users of Usenet client utilities have tried Google > >> and worked out their own reasons for not using it. The reasons > >> are many and varied. Some of them have also been discussed in > >> this group over the past several years. There are specific Usenet > >> groups for people wanting to talk pros and cons of various client > >> utilities. > > >> You yourself have problems with google groups. Yet, like Franz, > >> you stick to your belief that somebody else is causing them. > > > Well, from his description of the behaviour, which wasn't > > adequately detailed, it sounded like he has different ISO > > character set assignments for each thread level. I would > > guess that he has no default set but uses the character > > set described in the header. If it is absent, the default > > is the generic standard (don't recall the precise spec of the > > name). > > > but that's just a guess, albeit and educated guess. > > Not being able to see how precisely is his machine and > Google i/f set up (and he aparently not being able to > describe it), there is nohing more that one can do, but guess. Are you talking about me? No one ever asked me to describe my setup. AFAIK I have never set my charset to anything; it just takes whatever is sent. > Your guess seems to me to be a good one. It would > explain how sometimes he sees chars with diacritics and > sometimes just spaces giving him the impression that it's > something the posters do, not his google i/face. The missing-character thing NEVER happened before I mentioned it a day or two ago. Either I see the proper accented letters, or I see gibberish. Never before have I seen a blank instead of a funny letter. And I usually have no problem with the cyrillic, devanagari, Hebrew, Arabic, or Chinese characters that are sometimes posted here.
From: Ruud Harmsen on 30 Dec 2009 03:25 Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:46:43 -0800 (PST): "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim(a)verizon.net>: in sci.lang: >On Dec 29, 8:51�pm, Peter Moylan <gro.nalyomp(a)retep> wrote: >> On 30/12/09 07:19, Peter T. Daniels wrote: >> >> > On Dec 29, 2:45 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acorn...(a)ibsm.cnrs-mrs.fr> >> > wrote: >> >> If anyone doubted whether the difference between f and v was phonemic >> >> one could think of endless examples to show that it was, including some >> >> very common words like "life" and "live" (adjective). So there does >> >> seem to be something special about the two th sounds. Is there any >> >> mechanism that could explain why minimal pairs are so rare? >> >> > The sounds themselves are rare. >> >> You just managed to fit two of them into a five-word sentence. > >Do you really not know the difference between type and token? between >paradigmatic and syntagmatic? (The question was not directed to me, but ...) No, I didn't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigmatic_analysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntagmatic http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tekensysteem -- Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
From: Helmut Wollmersdorfer on 30 Dec 2009 05:29
Peter T. Daniels wrote: > On Dec 29, 9:27 pm, "PaulJK" <paul.kr...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> jmfbahciv wrote: >> Your guess seems to me to be a good one. It would >> explain how sometimes he sees chars with diacritics and >> sometimes just spaces giving him the impression that it's >> something the posters do, not his google i/face. > The missing-character thing NEVER happened before I mentioned it a day > or two ago. Do you remember the message(-ID)? If so we could analyze the error. Helmut Wollmersdorfer |