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From: JT on 17 Mar 2010 08:56 On 17 mar, 12:39, "slider" <sli...(a)anashram.com> wrote: > JT writes... > > HG wrote... > > > And whoever all those people were who cleaned up the air in Helsinki, they > > > sure as hell weren't people like Slider. They actually did stuff and > > > achieved something concrete. > > > > (If they would have been like him, then most probably not only the lichen, > > > but also the trees themselves would have started dying.) > > > > HG > > > ### - denial isn't just a river in Egypt you know :) > > >http://www.chernobyl.com.ua/ChernobylFacts.htm > > > a.. Chernobyl accident is equivalent to 500 nuclear bombs used in Hiroshima in > > 1945. > > b.. The releases contaminated an estimated 17 million people to some degree. > > c.. 143,000 people have been evacuated from contaminated areas of Ukraine > > d.. 600,000 people took part in liquidating effects of the disaster, 100,000 of > > which already died or are now handicapped > > e.. Cases of leucosis and thyroid cancer exceed average by 2 and 5 times > > correspondingly among the Chernobyl victims. > > f.. There are 1.8 million people residing on the territories of Ukraine, Russia, > > and Belarus, which are still defined as contaminated > > g.. For the 14 years since the disaster 300,000 died in Ukraine alone from the > > radiation sickness > > > ------------------------------ > > >http://www.davistownmuseum.org/cbm/Rad7b.html#Finland > > > Saxen, R. and Aaltonen, H. (1987). Radioactivity of surface water in Finland > > after > > the Chernobyl accident in 1986: Supplement 5 to Annual Report STUK-A55. Report > > No. > > STUK-A60. Finnish Centre for Radiation and Nuclear Safety, Helsinki. > > > a.. The highest concentration of 137Cs (5,300 Bq/m3) found in 1986 was about > > 1,000 times higher than the average concentration of 137Cs in surface water in > > 1985, and 10-80 times higher than the highest values detected after the weapons > > test period in the 1960's. > > > b.. A hot spot of 11,000 Bq/m3 of 89Sr was found in 1986. > > > -------------------------------http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Chernobyl+disaster+20+years+ago+was+... > > > The fear spread with the rumours. When officials gave assurances that there was > > no > > danger, there was speculation in newspapers about whether or not milk was safe > > to > > drink, and lettuce safe to eat, or if rain water could be used for making food, > > or > > if it was all right for children to play in sandboxes or puddles. > > The government was accused of being slow and secretive. When Finland did not > > join the other Nordic Countries in calling on the Soviet Union to give an > > official > > explanation of what had happened, it was seen as yet another example of > > Finlandization. The decision on a fifth commercial nuclear reactor for Finland > > was > > set back 15 years. > > "Chernobyl turned into an information disaster", Koivukoski says. > > "At the time, accidents were seen mainly as a matter for officials to deal > > with. Since then, cooperation with journalists and the means of disseminating > > information developed tremendously." > > > ----------------------------- > > >http://www.stuk.fi/tutkimus/hankkeet/terveyshaitat/en_GB/chefin/ > > > The impact of the Chernobyl accident on the cancers in Finland (CHEFIN) > > > The aim of the study is to assess whether there is a detectable increase in > > various cancer types following the Chernobyl accident in Finland; to test a > > hypothesis concerning the non-linear, cancer-promoting effect of radiation at > > low > > doses, and to develop a database and design of studies of impacts of the > > Chernobyl > > accident on the population of Finland. > > > ------------------------------ > > >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1240640/ > > > Possible effects of Chernobyl fallout on outcome of pregnancy in Finland were > > evaluated in a nationwide follow-up study. The outcomes were the rate of live > > births and stillbirths, pregnancy loss, and induced abortions by municipality. > > Exposure was assessed based on nationwide surveys of radiation dose rate from > > the > > Chernobyl fallout, from both external and internal exposures. Using these > > measurements, we estimated the monthly dose rate for each of the 455 Finnish > > municipalities. On average, the dose rate from Chernobyl fallout reached 50 > > microSv per month in May 1986--a doubling of the natural background radiation. > > In > > the most heavily affected area, 4 times the normal background dose rates were > > recorded. Given the underlying regional differences in live birth, stillbirth, > > and > > abortion rates, we used longitudinal analysis comparing changes over time within > > municipalities. A temporary decline in the live birth rate had already begun > > before 1986, with no clear relationship to the level of fallout. A statistically > > significant increase in spontaneous abortions with dose of radiation was > > observed. > > No marked changes in induced abortions or stillbirths were observed. The > > decrease > > in the live birth rate is probably not a biological effect of radiation, but > > more > > likely related to public concerns of the fallout. The effect on spontaneous > > abortions should be interpreted with caution, because of potential bias or > > confounding. Further, there is little support in the epidemiologic literature on > > effects of very low doses of radiation on pregnancy outcome. > > > ---------------------------- > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article592538.ece > > > Finland, among the countries worst affected by fallout from the stricken Soviet > > power station, seems an unlikely candidate to lead a revival of the nuclear age. > > > Yet in a nation that boasts 1.5 million saunas - one for every four people - and > > a > > vast, electricity-hungry paper industry, energy issues have acquired a high > > political profile. > > > The Finns are no longer content to rely on imported gas, oil and coal for their > > power, or to pump out more and more of the greenhouse gases that are anathema to > > their environmentally conscious traditions. > > > The nuclear option, they decided after a two-year national debate, has become > > least worst way of generating electricity cheaply and reliably. > > > -------------------- > > > ### - (slider's comment) ffs! ** 500 Hiroshimas?! ** geeze! > > > but it's all ok folks, even with 500 Hiroshimas on our friggin' doorstep, > > recycling all our old tin cans and baking foil + doing a bit of gardening in > > Hel-sinki is perforce gonna save the day, no problemo! + of course no need to > > worry about the 60's global contamination either... > > > well i believe it, i really do... don't you? > > > (yeah right :) > > Well you guys seem to be in apocalypse mode, what about this one the > dynamo of earth goes nuts, sealevel rises. There will be a party 5 > november 2015 enchantment under the sea. > > Is it 1955 or 1985 > > ### - hi JT, it's not really apocalypse-mode hehe, but a certain 'facing of the > facts' so to speak, facts that are suggestive of (and/or are indicative of) a > certain 'hypocrisy' to all this global-warming/recycling-bs that most people > seemed have swallowed hook, line and proverbial sinker... probably because the > truth of the matter is just too horrible to consider... > > i.e. that it's already probably/quite-likely been fucked-up just from the 60's > tests alone, the slow cumulative-effects of which are really only now beginning to > manifest themselves in worldwide declining populations across the board due to a > variety of reasons, notwithstanding that of reduced fertility and/or the > decreasing ability to reproduce in many species (Chernobyl only got mentioned > because the 'fool-finn' i was talking to cited Helsinki as being some kind of > wonderful proof that everything's just fine and dandy in downtown wallyworld, > which i then claimed to probably be more of an exercise in public relations than > being representative of any real progress...) > > only 'finny-boy' there (HG) threw a proverbial 'fit' at that point haha, which > ended the debate leaving things hanging in the air/obscured (by clouds) that i > thought aught to be somewhat further clarified at least... > > was there a point to it? well yes, one which i attempted to qualify with a quote > from albert einstein (i.e. because he can't just be accused of being some 'crank') > > "All our lauded technological progress -- our very civilization - is like > the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal." --albert einstein > > which as you can probably see/deduce is not really apocalyptic per se, that being > another subject proper, perhaps other than it wouldn't exactly surprise me that > much either if our collective delinquent/stupid behaviour led us to something > quite like it... > > cheers :) > > ------------------------ > > December 16, 1996 > > "Scientists are mired in respectability. Does it not penetrate their > skulls that some phenomena might only occur once? Or at a certain > pattern in time--only every 3rd Tuesday, etcetera. > And they have an insatiable appetite for data: "More data!" they scream > "and nothing anecdotal." (This may be the only data in some cases.) > "Not conclusive!" > Is anything ever?" > > --excerpt from William Burroughs final work: 'Last Words' > > --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: n...(a)netfront.net ---- Dölj citerad text - > > - Visa citerad text - Well i am all for recycling and take good care of earth keeping our environment clean, i am not convinced that we are the main reason of global warming though. I keep recycling, i would love polution free cars electric or not, and a clean environment, of course we must try. JT
From: slider on 18 Mar 2010 18:03 JT wrote... Well i am all for recycling and take good care of earth keeping our environment clean, i am not convinced that we are the main reason of global warming though. I keep recycling, i would love polution free cars electric or not, and a clean environment, of course we must try ### - well you're obviously a caring person who's trying to do your bit (for the planet) just as we've all been instructed/informed/educated to do etc, and even though i'm probably just an innately horribly suspicious and sceptical person who basically doesn't trust anyone, 'especially' the people who tell us all what to do and how best to do it etc etc, i don't really wanna crash your head and/or bring you down by suggesting to someone like you that's it's probably all just a programmed waste of time deliberately designed to keep people's minds busy on what are ostensibly 'harmless' (to society i mean) mundane occupations and pastimes lest we all get dissatisfied and start smashing the place up instead haha... and if i 'did' say it to someone like you, then i think i'd probably at least say/put it in an oblique-enough manner so as to do you the honour of not 'assaulting' you with it,. plus then leaving you to make your own mind up about these things for yourself should you ever wish to contemplate these things... plus can't be any fairer than that can i... cheers :) --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news(a)netfront.net ---
From: "Bassos" Root on 18 Mar 2010 23:00 "slider" <slider(a)anashram.com> wrote in message news:hnu83l$btj$1(a)adenine.netfront.net... > > > Bassos wrote... >>> ### - well yes the neurotics have certainly got their hands full haha! >>> their conflict never ends... >> >> Make peace with your biggest enemy; you. >> >>> whereas life's a sheer joy for the empty-handed, and their mystery >>> never-ending ;) >> >> I quite agree. >> >> Empty that ever-overflowing cup continuously. > > ### - brilliant, especially that last remark :) The shhsss part is not limited to people that plonk. Take the comment, perhaps enjoy it, but commenting on me as if i wrote something interesting is destroying quite some work in which i made an effort.
From: slider on 19 Mar 2010 05:24 Bassos wrote... >>>> ### - well yes the neurotics have certainly got their hands full haha! their >>>> conflict never ends... >>> >>> Make peace with your biggest enemy; you. >>> >>>> whereas life's a sheer joy for the empty-handed, and their mystery >>>> never-ending ;) >>> >>> I quite agree. >>> >>> Empty that ever-overflowing cup continuously. >> >> ### - brilliant, especially that last remark :) > > The shhsss part is not limited to people that plonk. > > Take the comment, perhaps enjoy it, but commenting on me as if i wrote something > interesting is destroying quite some work in which i made an effort. ### - smile, not 'interesting', i meant 'brilliant' literally! (as in light ;-) also, personally i don't 'believe' in (shhss) keeping secrets (sophism?), as if simple-me could ever possibly know something that others don't or can't also know and prosper/grow thereby... that said, i wouldn't just hand a big stick with a nail sticking out of the end of it to some kid with no education/preparation either hehe (in fact i'd probably take it off him if i happened upon a kid playing with one and tell him to play nicely! ;-) --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news(a)netfront.net ---
From: slider on 19 Mar 2010 05:35
Dennes de Mennes wrote... >>> Frankly Slidy ! >>> Do you think this present time should bare the presense of Tyranosausus Rex, >>> or so many reptilian prehistoric mammuths ????????? >>> ..Ding Ding...Lama.... Ding Ding... > yeah, but there's still an ecobalance that has to be maintained > for the food chain to remain in operating condition, and not take > out one of the steps and the whole thing comes crashing...so do > not on purpose mess with the balance either in a negative or > positive way...just maintain it. >>> >>> Future holds something else. >>> Something that might involve a savant bunch of bacterias that could >>> raise a bread for some finer pallates. > yeast seems to work... >> >>### - (laughing:) for sure in about 2 or 3 million years time maybe evolved >>chimpanzees will be sitting there reading their sunday newspapers instead of us >>by-then long extinct humans hehehe, plus let's just hope they make a better job >>of >>it than us who never evolved beyond our own shitty little egos and thus went the >>way of all tyrants: gone for good! ;-) > not maybe, most certainly evolving apes will have moved up the > latter to human by then. ### - (laughing:) well then let's just hope they do a much better job of it than we ever did lol (if they've got any sense at all they wont do it and remain in paradise instead ;) >>> Who knows........ I would have replied Dennes; >>> ... Do you think 'Human kind' is one of the species that will survive ?... > it may look totally different if you take a snapshot now and then > 3 million years from now or what not, but from day to day you > won't be able to tell the difference--we'll look back at present > day human and say that was so damn ape like...some even have body > hair.... >>> .......But of course I know.... You fool ! ;) > no one knows the future...we can only try to guess... >> >>### - smile, i hear you... and well no one could certainly ever accuse me of >>warming the hands of passing street-cripples heh, yet i think you'll find that >>our >>friend/potential-brother Dennes de Mennes (a deliberate play on the words: >>dennis >>the menace:) was indeed slightly warmed, albeit by different (but also more >>inevitably assured) methods that he's probably not even aware of as yet (if >>ever, >>and because it's not required he knows) and which incidentally was also far >>safer >>for me considering i was getting involved in something and/or with someone else >>(i.e. there's always a risk involved in getting involved ;) > no risk no gain... absolutely it is the case that forces operate > within me that i am not totally aware on a conscious level...if > that's what you meant...(forces = constructs/archetypes) >> >>plus i just hope you guys are actually learning/getting something from all this! >>or perhaps i've just been entirely wasting my time? (roflmao, could be! lol ;-) > i'm always learning and also try to teach... > > peace out... ### - it's ok, you weren't actually meant to see that reply i posted to someone in our own newsgroup where we were previously discussing aspects of human psychology (i.e. 'they' were the one's i was saying i hoped were getting something from all this etc not you guys, and because that would have actually been quite rude of me) but it got-away from me before i could remove the cross-posting involved hehe, so then maybe you were kinda meant to see it anyway, who knows :) --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news(a)netfront.net --- |