Vulcan .Net and VO 2.8
in [Visual Objects]
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From: mullet on 24 Sep 2006 10:34 <g> Your right though. It is just a metaphor. I'm not calling anyone a rat. "Geoff Schaller" <geoff(a)xxxsoftwareobjectives.com.au> wrote in message news:4515e558$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au... > Rats! > > ...couldn't you have found a better metaphor to describe those moving on? > > <g> > > "mullet" <mullet(a)yahoo.ca> wrote in message > news:NddRg.14390$1T2.10334(a)pd7urf2no: > >> Sorry I don't come to you for my affirmation, but that doesn't make me >> arrogant. People on this newsgroup are way to sensitive getting inulted >> very >> easily. It is a good sign of low self esteme around here. >> >> I'm not a hyporcrite. I have said VO is a sinking ship for the last 4 >> years. >> Nothing has changed. I still think it is sinking. More rats are leaving >> every day. I live what I believe and left VO years ago. >> >> Take a chill pill. >
From: Geoff Schaller on 24 Sep 2006 18:25 I know that but it does conjure up amusing images. "mullet" <mullet(a)yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:yHwRg.20107$R63.703(a)pd7urf1no: > <g> Your right though. It is just a metaphor. I'm not calling anyone a > rat. > > "Geoff Schaller" <geoff(a)xxxsoftwareobjectives.com.au> wrote in message > news:4515e558$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au... > > > Rats! > > > > ...couldn't you have found a better metaphor to describe those moving on? > > > > <g> > > > > "mullet" <mullet(a)yahoo.ca> wrote in message > > news:NddRg.14390$1T2.10334(a)pd7urf2no: > > > > >> Sorry I don't come to you for my affirmation, but that doesn't make me > >> arrogant. People on this newsgroup are way to sensitive getting inulted > >> very > >> easily. It is a good sign of low self esteme around here. > >> > >> I'm not a hyporcrite. I have said VO is a sinking ship for the last 4 > >> years. > >> Nothing has changed. I still think it is sinking. More rats are leaving > >> every day. I live what I believe and left VO years ago. > >> > >> Take a chill pill. > > >
From: Brian on 28 Sep 2006 14:31
Paul, > E.g. Numerous times has been asked to split up VOPS in several parts > instead of making it a total package consisting of support + VO28 + Vulcan > IMO it is a bad strategy to be deaf for what your clients ("the hand that > feeds you...") think or want. Especially when they are the majority. I would agree with you.(It's bad strategy to be deaf) I can only tell you that we have NOT been deaf on this issue, and that new VOPS plans will be announced in the future that will provide varying levels of support. Some things just take time to implement. > Many people found the program too expensive (search the NG!) . GrafX > argumented that the price was justified because it included Vulcan. Again. We are listening. > Maybe, but that argument was only good for one year. Now we are 3 years > further and those who stepped into VOPS will have paid Vulcan or 2.8 three > times as much as the ones who just waited their time. And what will > happen with VOPS, when Vulcan comes available? VOPS is working very well for our Visual Object and Vulcan.NET customers. It is also working very well for GrafX. I make no apologies for it's costs.VOPS will continue to operate after Vulcan.NET is shipping. >Will the price go down? That would be the logical consequence. Probably not. > The same goes for the lack of communication. As Marshall said "literally > no news, no documentation, no learning tools of any kind". Totally > impossible to attract even one new user to such a language, and extremely > difficult to even maintain the existing user base that way. And I'm quite > convinced that this userbase went down dramatically. Many here don't want > to hear this, so be it: VO has lost many of its users the past few years. > A simple look at the stats of this NG: > Number of messages > 2003 26940 > 2004 23305 > 2005 16209 > 2006 7914 (stats only 3/4 of the year) > > Number of people > 2003 1326 > 2004 1171 > 2005 929 > 2006 577 (stats only 3/4 of the year) > So, nearly 750 people have dissappeared that were, hardly 3 years ago, > interested in VO, debating about it, asking questions and helping each > other. Where do you think they have gone? to VOPS? I don't think > so... most of the subscribers to VOPS are still active in the public NG as > well. Who wants to come here and listen to all this drivel.? I do not. This forum was once a place where we helped each other not attacked each other. It was a place for technical content, NOT political arguments based on pure speculation. IMHO, This forum has been hijacked, by a small group who verbally bully anyone who's opinions they disagree with. To me spending hours on these sort of post is not something I enjoy. Some people love it. They post 10 posts a day. It's not some kind of a game for me. I have lots of real work to do.. Surely you understand that a private forum(VOPS) that has access to all the developers is better place to come and work out problems in a calm reasonable atmosphere has advantages to this public group. I would imagine that many people just do not visit this forum based on the behavior of a small group. Here is a quote from someone in VOPS just yesterday. "I am constantly amazed and impressed by the amount of VO work shifted by Robert, and can't imagine why others are not. Big thanks to all of you for your dedication. Another HUGE advantage for me is to have this private ng, and not have to plough thru all the BS in the clcvo ng. That alone to me is almost worth the subscription!!!" In life, there are always those who see the glass as half empty, and those who see the glass as half full. The VOPS perception is that the glass is half full. > And I don't even talk about the general mood here in the NG... it used to > be a friendly place - All for VO and VO for all - but the last year it has > become a place where people are calling each other "rats, insane and evil" > ( reminds me of seeing Archie Bunker in action in "All of the family": > very funny sometimes, good laughs guaranteed, but if you think deeper > about it: it's sad and tragic ). Now *why* and *how* did it become like > that? Well... frustration about overdue delivery, over being in the cold > without any news, about the "exclusive club" and so on... oh well...it > has been said so many times here. No question, I agree with you that the mood here on the public forum is horrible. Frankly I have no control over what is posted here. I only have control of my own post, and I can assure you that I posted what I really wanted to say to some people, Archie Bunker would be blushing. There are a few people who's view differ from mine, but I'd rather chose to ignore them then to stoop to their level, and waste my days getting nothing accomplished. We can debate this until the cows come home. It's not going to resolve anything until the members of this forum start to treat each other like they would like to be treated. Some of us are un-willing "fight fire with fire". (because it only makes the fire bigger<g>) > I do not doubt for one second that you guys have been working very very > hard these past years on VO2.8 and Vulcan (and I"m grateful you did), but > something vital was missing: keeping the user base informed, and listening > to them (and not only if they opened their wallets). On the other hand, > I also realize that you are such a small team, with such a big task ahead, > and not much money. Sort of a vicious circle I'm afraid. Good luck > anyway and I'm looking forward to V2.8. Well, thanks ! All the best, Brian. PS. I really enjoyed your link to http://www.pakin.org/complaint The writing style reminds me of a certain poster name Illias. |