What is the disagreement to aether?
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From: mpc755 on 25 Feb 2010 14:28 On Feb 25, 2:25 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > >On Feb 25, 1:54 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > >wrote: > >> mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > >> >Now you're adding in a virtual Z boson and a virtual photon and still > >> >not accounting for the mass. The image represents the physical effects > >> >of the electron and position transitioning to aether. > > >> You actually have it backwards. The mass of a B0 pair (or a Z) greatly > >> exceed that of the e+e- pair. You should have asked "where did the mass > >> come from?" > > >> But science already has the answer. Total energy (or mass-energy) is > >> conserved, but rest mass by itself is not. It's just a form of mass-energy > >> just like kinetic energy is. The forms can just interconvert, that's all. > > >> Just like if you have a glass full of ice. Put it somewhere warm and the > >> ice will convert into water (melt), Put it somewhere cold and water will > >> freeze into ice. The amount of solid isn't a conserved quantity, neither > >> is the amount of liquid. The total amount of the chemical H2O however is, > >> barring chemical reactions. No need to invent magic terms to explain where > >> the solidness of the ice went. No need to invent magic terms (like > >> "aether") to explain where rest mass went. > >Very good analogy. The water in your analogy is the mather. The > >mather, in the form of matter, transitions to its base state, aether, > >releasing energy. Where the pressure is great enough in the universe > >the mather in its base state of aether is compressed into matter. > > Word salad, with a couple of surprises, an obsolete term and a made-up > term. Kind of like a regular salad with, in addition to lettuce and > cherry tomatoes, there's a tiny dead frog and a purple glowing mushroom in > there. > > No need for the oddities. The glass content is the total system energy > (not "mather" nor a glowing mushroom), the liquid water is energy in the > form of kinetic or electromagnetic or other "familiar" forms of energy > (not dead frogs nor dead aethers), ice is "familiar" rest mass. > > Just as the weight of the contents of the glass doesn't depend on whether > the contents are solid or liquid, gravity couples to the total energy > of the system, irrespective of whether the energy is in the form of KE > or rest mass. The liquid water is still matter. The liquid water still has mass. Ice rest mass is not zero. The ice, even when at rest, has mass. The weight of the contents of the glass does not change because the mass in the glass still exists, as matter. Replace H20 with mather and you will be describing E=mc^2.
From: BURT on 25 Feb 2010 15:28 On Feb 25, 8:44 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Feb 25, 11:40 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 25, 10:34 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Feb 25, 11:25 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Feb 24, 5:55 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Feb 24, 6:41 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On 2/24/10 11:15 AM, mpc755 wrote: > > > > > > > > Mass of electron: 9.10938215(45)Ã10-31 kg > > > > > > > Mass of photon: 0 > > > > > > >   Photon momentum > > > > > >    p = hν/c = h/λ > > > > > > Photon momentum, yes. But what happened to the mass associated with > > > > > the electron? It isn't 'lost'. It doesn't vanish or disappear. The > > > > > mass still exists as aether. The photon has momentum because of the > > > > > expansion matter transitioning has on the surrounding aether and > > > > > matter. The transition of matter to aether creates directed/pointed > > > > > waves in the aether which when detected collapse into a quantum of > > > > > aether. The quanta of aether detected are the photons. > > > > > Light does not disappear when it is absorbed. The light still exists > > > > as pixies. Pixies are invisible, but the fact that light is conserved > > > > is the evidence that pixies exist. This is a better description of > > > > nature than the absurd nonsense that light is absorbed and ceases to > > > > exist, or is emitted and created from nothing. > > > > My preferred concept of light is as a wave which when detected > > > collapses into a quanta of aether. The quanta of aether still exists > > > after detection. > > > Yes, I know. You prefer crazy, stupid stuff. That's why I mentioned > > pixies. Other people prefer pixies, but their arguments are just as > > good as yours. > > Matter and aether are different states of mather. In terms of E=mc^2 > it is the mather transitioning from matter to aether and the expansion > in volume associated with the mather which is energy. > > 'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT? By A. > EINSTEIN'http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf > > "If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass > diminishes by L/c2." > > The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer > exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as > aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands in three > dimensions. The effect this transition has on the surrounding aether > and matter is energy. The energy given off in nuclear fission and > fusion reactions is the effect matter transitioning to aether has on > the matter and aether in neighboring places. > > The mass still exists in nature after an electron is 'annihilated'. > The matter which was the mass still exists, as aether. > > The mistake is directly equating energy with mass and thinking mass > 'converts' to energy in nature: > > 511 kEv /c² = 9.10938215(45)*10-31 kg > > What occurs physically in nature is more correctly described as the > matter which is the mass of the electron, 9.10938215(45)*10-31 kg, > expands in three dimensional space as it transitions from matter to > aether. The physical effects this increase in volume has on the > surrounding matter and aether is 511 kEv /c² of energy.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - What does light become when it is absorbed? It becomes the energy of an electric particle mass.. Mitch Raemsch
From: mpc755 on 25 Feb 2010 16:05 On Feb 25, 3:28 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Feb 25, 8:44 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Feb 25, 11:40 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Feb 25, 10:34 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Feb 25, 11:25 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Feb 24, 5:55 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 24, 6:41 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 2/24/10 11:15 AM, mpc755 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Mass of electron: 9.10938215(45)Ã10-31 kg > > > > > > > > Mass of photon: 0 > > > > > > > >   Photon momentum > > > > > > >    p = hν/c = h/λ > > > > > > > Photon momentum, yes. But what happened to the mass associated with > > > > > > the electron? It isn't 'lost'. It doesn't vanish or disappear. The > > > > > > mass still exists as aether. The photon has momentum because of the > > > > > > expansion matter transitioning has on the surrounding aether and > > > > > > matter. The transition of matter to aether creates directed/pointed > > > > > > waves in the aether which when detected collapse into a quantum of > > > > > > aether. The quanta of aether detected are the photons. > > > > > > Light does not disappear when it is absorbed. The light still exists > > > > > as pixies. Pixies are invisible, but the fact that light is conserved > > > > > is the evidence that pixies exist. This is a better description of > > > > > nature than the absurd nonsense that light is absorbed and ceases to > > > > > exist, or is emitted and created from nothing. > > > > > My preferred concept of light is as a wave which when detected > > > > collapses into a quanta of aether. The quanta of aether still exists > > > > after detection. > > > > Yes, I know. You prefer crazy, stupid stuff. That's why I mentioned > > > pixies. Other people prefer pixies, but their arguments are just as > > > good as yours. > > > Matter and aether are different states of mather. In terms of E=mc^2 > > it is the mather transitioning from matter to aether and the expansion > > in volume associated with the mather which is energy. > > > 'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT? By A. > > EINSTEIN'http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf > > > "If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass > > diminishes by L/c2." > > > The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer > > exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as > > aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands in three > > dimensions. The effect this transition has on the surrounding aether > > and matter is energy. The energy given off in nuclear fission and > > fusion reactions is the effect matter transitioning to aether has on > > the matter and aether in neighboring places. > > > The mass still exists in nature after an electron is 'annihilated'. > > The matter which was the mass still exists, as aether. > > > The mistake is directly equating energy with mass and thinking mass > > 'converts' to energy in nature: > > > 511 kEv /c² = 9.10938215(45)*10-31 kg > > > What occurs physically in nature is more correctly described as the > > matter which is the mass of the electron, 9.10938215(45)*10-31 kg, > > expands in three dimensional space as it transitions from matter to > > aether. The physical effects this increase in volume has on the > > surrounding matter and aether is 511 kEv /c² of energy.- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > What does light become when it is absorbed? It becomes the energy of > an electric particle mass.. > > Mitch Raemsch The quantum of aether applies pressure to the matter during detection.
From: BURT on 25 Feb 2010 16:15 On Feb 25, 1:05 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Feb 25, 3:28 pm, BURT <macromi...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 25, 8:44 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Feb 25, 11:40 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Feb 25, 10:34 am, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Feb 25, 11:25 am, PD <thedraperfam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 24, 5:55 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Feb 24, 6:41 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 2/24/10 11:15 AM, mpc755 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mass of electron: 9.10938215(45)Ã10-31 kg > > > > > > > > > Mass of photon: 0 > > > > > > > > >   Photon momentum > > > > > > > >    p = hν/c = h/λ > > > > > > > > Photon momentum, yes. But what happened to the mass associated with > > > > > > > the electron? It isn't 'lost'. It doesn't vanish or disappear.. The > > > > > > > mass still exists as aether. The photon has momentum because of the > > > > > > > expansion matter transitioning has on the surrounding aether and > > > > > > > matter. The transition of matter to aether creates directed/pointed > > > > > > > waves in the aether which when detected collapse into a quantum of > > > > > > > aether. The quanta of aether detected are the photons. > > > > > > > Light does not disappear when it is absorbed. The light still exists > > > > > > as pixies. Pixies are invisible, but the fact that light is conserved > > > > > > is the evidence that pixies exist. This is a better description of > > > > > > nature than the absurd nonsense that light is absorbed and ceases to > > > > > > exist, or is emitted and created from nothing. > > > > > > My preferred concept of light is as a wave which when detected > > > > > collapses into a quanta of aether. The quanta of aether still exists > > > > > after detection. > > > > > Yes, I know. You prefer crazy, stupid stuff. That's why I mentioned > > > > pixies. Other people prefer pixies, but their arguments are just as > > > > good as yours. > > > > Matter and aether are different states of mather. In terms of E=mc^2 > > > it is the mather transitioning from matter to aether and the expansion > > > in volume associated with the mather which is energy. > > > > 'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT? By A. > > > EINSTEIN'http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf > > > > "If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass > > > diminishes by L/c2." > > > > The mass of the body does diminish, but the matter which no longer > > > exists as part of the body has not vanished. It still exists, as > > > aether. As the matter transitions to aether it expands in three > > > dimensions. The effect this transition has on the surrounding aether > > > and matter is energy. The energy given off in nuclear fission and > > > fusion reactions is the effect matter transitioning to aether has on > > > the matter and aether in neighboring places. > > > > The mass still exists in nature after an electron is 'annihilated'. > > > The matter which was the mass still exists, as aether. > > > > The mistake is directly equating energy with mass and thinking mass > > > 'converts' to energy in nature: > > > > 511 kEv /c² = 9.10938215(45)*10-31 kg > > > > What occurs physically in nature is more correctly described as the > > > matter which is the mass of the electron, 9.10938215(45)*10-31 kg, > > > expands in three dimensional space as it transitions from matter to > > > aether. The physical effects this increase in volume has on the > > > surrounding matter and aether is 511 kEv /c² of energy.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > What does light become when it is absorbed? It becomes the energy of > > an electric particle mass.. > > > Mitch Raemsch > > The quantum of aether applies pressure to the matter during detection.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Light collapses the wave in the two hole experiment. Mitch Raemsch
From: mpc755 on 25 Feb 2010 16:21
On Feb 25, 2:28 pm, mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Feb 25, 2:25 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > wrote: > > > > > mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > >On Feb 25, 1:54 pm, moro...(a)world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > >wrote: > > >> mpc755 <mpc...(a)gmail.com> writes: > > >> >Now you're adding in a virtual Z boson and a virtual photon and still > > >> >not accounting for the mass. The image represents the physical effects > > >> >of the electron and position transitioning to aether. > > > >> You actually have it backwards. The mass of a B0 pair (or a Z) greatly > > >> exceed that of the e+e- pair. You should have asked "where did the mass > > >> come from?" > > > >> But science already has the answer. Total energy (or mass-energy) is > > >> conserved, but rest mass by itself is not. It's just a form of mass-energy > > >> just like kinetic energy is. The forms can just interconvert, that's all. > > > >> Just like if you have a glass full of ice. Put it somewhere warm and the > > >> ice will convert into water (melt), Put it somewhere cold and water will > > >> freeze into ice. The amount of solid isn't a conserved quantity, neither > > >> is the amount of liquid. The total amount of the chemical H2O however is, > > >> barring chemical reactions. No need to invent magic terms to explain where > > >> the solidness of the ice went. No need to invent magic terms (like > > >> "aether") to explain where rest mass went. > > >Very good analogy. The water in your analogy is the mather. The > > >mather, in the form of matter, transitions to its base state, aether, > > >releasing energy. Where the pressure is great enough in the universe > > >the mather in its base state of aether is compressed into matter. > > > Word salad, with a couple of surprises, an obsolete term and a made-up > > term. Kind of like a regular salad with, in addition to lettuce and > > cherry tomatoes, there's a tiny dead frog and a purple glowing mushroom in > > there. > > > No need for the oddities. The glass content is the total system energy > > (not "mather" nor a glowing mushroom), the liquid water is energy in the > > form of kinetic or electromagnetic or other "familiar" forms of energy > > (not dead frogs nor dead aethers), ice is "familiar" rest mass. > > > Just as the weight of the contents of the glass doesn't depend on whether > > the contents are solid or liquid, gravity couples to the total energy > > of the system, irrespective of whether the energy is in the form of KE > > or rest mass. > > The liquid water is still matter. The liquid water still has mass. Ice > rest mass is not zero. The ice, even when at rest, has mass. > > The weight of the contents of the glass does not change because the > mass in the glass still exists, as matter. > > Replace H20 with mather and you will be describing E=mc^2. The water in its states of ice and liquid is analogous to the mather in its states of matter and aether. When the mass associated with the ice diminishes the physical effect the H20 has transitioning from ice to liquid is energy. When the mass associated with the matter diminishes the physical effect the mather has transitioning from matter to aether is energy. |