iDont want to make any more of this stuff ...
in [UK Mac]
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From: T i m on 27 May 2010 03:44 On Thu, 27 May 2010 06:30:43 +0100, Rob <ngonly(a)gmail.com> wrote: >On 26/05/2010 19:54, T i m wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> On the news just now, it would seem many workers at the Foxconn >> factory in China would rather commit suicide (and 11 or so have >> already this year) than continue making the likes of the iPhone and >> iPad? ;-( >> > >I can't see a link in any of the media I've seen. The only vague stab >has been a correlation between age and suicide, and a 'lost generation'. >But hardly the hard scientific data you seem to have seen - where did >you get it? > Nothing scientific Rob, just a news item on the TV. Georges reply seem to suggest Apple may better_than_most in this field but one might still question the ethics of the whole lets get it made cheaply in the far East thing. My thoughts ... (and this is ignoring corporate greed etc), if it cost �50 to assemble an iPhone in China and �75 to have it assembled in the UK, would that just knock Apples profits by �25? If so, wouldn't it be better (ethically) for it to be that way or is it still better to provide this sort of work to someone in the far East even with their known working conditions? Cheers, T i m
From: Jim on 27 May 2010 04:18 On 2010-05-27, T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote: >> >>I can't see a link in any of the media I've seen. The only vague stab >>has been a correlation between age and suicide, and a 'lost generation'. >>But hardly the hard scientific data you seem to have seen - where did >>you get it? >> > Nothing scientific Rob, just a news item on the TV. > > Georges reply seem to suggest Apple may better_than_most in this field > but one might still question the ethics of the whole lets get it made > cheaply in the far East thing. In which case you'll be wanting to throw out products made by the following Foxconn customers: Apple. Cisco. Dell. Nokia. Intel. HP/Compaq. Sony. IBM. Korn Corp. Motorola. nVidia. Nintendo. Microsoft. Amazon (the Kindle) and probably lots and lots of others. Jim -- Twitter:@GreyAreaUK "RESEARCH showing that men lie more than women is proof they should stop asking them awkward questions in the first place, say scientists." - The Daily Mash
From: Woody on 27 May 2010 04:17 T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote: > On Thu, 27 May 2010 06:30:43 +0100, Rob <ngonly(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >On 26/05/2010 19:54, T i m wrote: > >> Hi all, > >> > >> On the news just now, it would seem many workers at the Foxconn > >> factory in China would rather commit suicide (and 11 or so have > >> already this year) than continue making the likes of the iPhone and > >> iPad? ;-( > >> > > > >I can't see a link in any of the media I've seen. The only vague stab > >has been a correlation between age and suicide, and a 'lost generation'. > >But hardly the hard scientific data you seem to have seen - where did > >you get it? > > > Nothing scientific Rob, just a news item on the TV. > > Georges reply seem to suggest Apple may better_than_most in this field > but one might still question the ethics of the whole lets get it made > cheaply in the far East thing. > > My thoughts ... (and this is ignoring corporate greed etc), if it cost > �50 to assemble an iPhone in China and �75 to have it assembled in the > UK, would that just knock Apples profits by �25? No, it would just put the price up by �25. When it comes down to it, as you know yourself one of the normal critisisms against apple is how overpriced it is. After a decade of using china for manufacturing everything, we are used to the fact that everything is much cheaper than it used to be. > If so, wouldn't it be better (ethically) for it to be that way or is > it still better to provide this sort of work to someone in the far > East even with their known working conditions? It is better for have the work done there I would have thought. Not having any income isn't liable to improve the suicide rate. In an idea world it would be good to have the manufacturing done here from an economic point of view (ie, our economy), but I doubt it would be possible to get enough people to do it and it would push the prices up to a point where people wouldn't buy them. -- Woody
From: chris on 27 May 2010 04:40 On 27/05/10 08:44, T i m wrote: > My thoughts ... (and this is ignoring corporate greed etc), if it cost > �50 to assemble an iPhone in China and �75 to have it assembled in the > UK, would that just knock Apples profits by �25? I don't have any hard figures, but I'd imagine the cost difference is *much* larger than that. Something in the region of �20 in Taiwan and �200 in the UK. Don't forget we have unions, pensions, NI, sick pay, maternity/paternity pay, corporation tax, health and safety, etc. that all add to the cost of manufacturing any product here. There's a reason why Dysons are much more expensive than similar products. It's partly the technology and partly the higher costs of being a UK-based company. > If so, wouldn't it be better (ethically) for it to be that way or is > it still better to provide this sort of work to someone in the far > East even with their known working conditions? It comes down to what the consumer is prepared to pay, though isn't it? It's taken a long time for Fairtrade to be accepted by the general consumer and not just a niche who care about this kind of thing. For coffee the price difference is very small. For something like an iPad the difference would be huge. Apple products are already perceived as being expensive, but people accept it because they are better quality or a better 'cool factor'. Push the price up even more and the market disappears. I have to agree that Apple is being unfairly singled out here. It's the cheap as chips manufacturers that need to be targetted, as they are the ones driving prices and standards down. e.g. Primark and George(a)Asda have been criticised for the labour they use, but not the likes of M&S.
From: Woody on 27 May 2010 04:52
chris <ithinkiam(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 27/05/10 08:44, T i m wrote: > > My thoughts ... (and this is ignoring corporate greed etc), if it cost > > �50 to assemble an iPhone in China and �75 to have it assembled in the > > UK, would that just knock Apples profits by �25? > > I don't have any hard figures, but I'd imagine the cost difference is > *much* larger than that. Something in the region of �20 in Taiwan and > �200 in the UK. Don't forget we have unions, pensions, NI, sick pay, > maternity/paternity pay, corporation tax, health and safety, etc. that > all add to the cost of manufacturing any product here. > > There's a reason why Dysons are much more expensive than similar > products. It's partly the technology and partly the higher costs of > being a UK-based company. Except they are still as expensive as they were even after they closed down their UK factories and moved to malaysia. > I have to agree that Apple is being unfairly singled out here. It's the > cheap as chips manufacturers that need to be targetted, as they are the > ones driving prices and standards down. e.g. Primark and George(a)Asda > have been criticised for the labour they use, but not the likes of M&S. I was recently wondering that. There was a shirt I looked at in M&S which was �29. The same sort of thing was �7 in primark. I know that primark stuff is all made from the blood of unicorns, the tears of children and thread made from live skinned kittens, but on the label it appears that M&S stuff is made in the same place. -- Woody |