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From: Charlie Russel - MVP on 15 May 2010 13:11 The one place I see a plus with the cloud and e-mail is FOPE (ForeFront Online Protection for Exchange) or equivalent services such as ExchangeDefender. Here you're keeping the vast majority of the c-r-a-p off my server and off my bandwidth, while not inhibiting my ability to get mail if I suddenly can't use your service. (All it takes is a 10 second logon to ZoneEdit to change the MX record.) And, at least with ExchangeDefender, you're providing a valuable backup service in case my server is down (or unreachable) for somereason. -- Charlie. http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel "Larry Struckmeyer[SBS-MVP]" <lstruckmeyer(a)mis-wizards.com> wrote in message news:4e683515fabf8ccc236fcada328(a)news.microsoft.com... > Amen to the Amen. > For one or two users hosted exchange is a deal. For 10+ is seems to be a > monthly charge that, projected over the life of the system exceeds the > incremental cost of adding exchange (or some mail server) to a network. > > This is more than a math question, however, factor in "owning' your own > data, ability to use said data when the internet is off line, and subtract > the agro of maintaining your own mail server of whatever ilk, and imo, for > an orginization of more than just a few users local mail wins over hosted > mail. > > - > Larry > Please post the resolution to your > issue so others may benefit > - > Get Your SBS Health Check at > www.sbsbpa.com > > >> Amen. >> >> "Kerry Brown" <kerry(a)kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message >> news:Oe0xyrD9KHA.5476(a)TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> >>> "Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]" <russ(a)REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in >>> message news:u93fU#78KHA.1892(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> >>>> BPOS is basically RPC over HTTPS so its nothing new. >>>> >>>> and Because of the cost difference there will be more an more people >>>> moving >>>> and yes you are right Exchange on site will be dead IMO soon. >>>> And there is a lot of kick from IT >>>> But Money talks >>>> Financially it's too expensive to run an exchange server.. :( >>>> I predict in 4-5 years exchange will no longer be onsite... >>>> Russ >>> I keep seeing this argument. Have you actually worked the numbers? >>> It's almost impossible to get a price quote from the BPOS site but in >>> one place they mention $10.00 per month. I have also heard $5.00 per >>> month. Let's look at a site with 30 users. At $10.00 per month that >>> is $3,600.00 per year. At $5.00 it's $1,800.00 per year. Most sites >>> with 30 users will still need a server on site. They will need a DC >>> and probably a file server, print server, and WSUS. For sure they >>> will have a LOB app that needs a server. Given they already have at >>> least one server and the associated costs of maintaining the hardware >>> are you saying the actual maintenance of Exchange for 30 users is >>> more than somewhere between $1,800 and $3,600 per year? Even if you >>> add SharePoint in to the equation none of my clients spend anywhere >>> near that on Exchange/SharePoint maintenance. Once Exchange and >>> SharePoint are up and running it doesn't take a lot of time to >>> maintain them for 30 users. For most of my clients I doubt I spend >>> two hours a month on Exchange/SharePoint. Most of their costs are >>> server/workstation depreciation, LOB app maintenance, networking >>> hardware, and workstation maintenance. None of that goes away with >>> BPOS. I can think of several reasons for using BPOS. Lower costs is >>> not one of them. >>> >>> -- >>> Kerry Brown >>> MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration >>> http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/ > >
From: Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] on 15 May 2010 13:50 Time will tell Honestly I hope you are wrong but the people betting are the people who deal the cards :) Russ -- Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC Small Business Server/Computer Support - www.SBITS.Biz Question or Second Opinion - www.PersonalITConsultant.com BPOS - Microsoft Online Services - www.BPOSMadeEasy.com "Charlie Russel - MVP" <Charlie(a)mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message news:OeUfZ2D9KHA.3880(a)TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Horsepucky. I buy (and configure) a server once. It's a capital expense. > My ongoing incremental cost is nil. If I'm having a bad couple of months > in the business (or a bad YEAR like a lot of companies have had), I can > still do business without worrying about MS (or your favourite cloud > service) cutting me off cause I can't pay. > > Sorry, I think you're way, way off base. Yes, there is a place for the > cloud, but I don't see it as the cure all that you appear to. > > -- > Charlie. > http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel > > > > > "Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]" <russ(a)REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in message > news:u93fU%2378KHA.1892(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> BPOS is basically RPC over HTTPS so its nothing new. >> >> and Because of the cost difference there will be more an more people >> moving >> and yes you are right Exchange on site will be dead IMO soon. >> And there is a lot of kick from IT >> But Money talks >> Financially it's too expensive to run an exchange server.. :( >> I predict in 4-5 years exchange will no longer be onsite... >> Russ >> >> -- >> Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] >> MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC >> Small Business Server/Computer Support - www.SBITS.Biz >> BPOS - Microsoft Online Services - www.Microsoft-Online-Services.com >> >> >> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <Charlie(a)mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message >> news:OdOVq678KHA.4600(a)TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>> Sorry, BPOS will never be my first choice. Frankly, I don't want anyone >>> else with their hands in my pocket every single month or my business is >>> dead. My monthly nut is quite large enough, without adding to it. >>> >>> -- >>> Charlie. >>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]" <russ(a)REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in message >>> news:FF17FB09-16D8-4DC1-AE0C-EA10F3662BFE(a)microsoft.com... >>>>I know this is a Sales Pitch >>>> >>>> but this would be a great time to move to BPOS >>>> You'd just need 1 Server for Files >>>> and one for any LOB >>>> >>>> SharePoint and Exchange would be in the cloud >>>> visit www.BPOSMadeEasy.com >>>> or a search for bpos on the web >>>> >>>> Or contact me offline russgrover @ kaitka.com >>>> >>>> It's cheaper to have exchange in the cloud than on premises now days :( >>>> Russ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] >>>> MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC >>>> Small Business Server/Computer Support - www.SBITS.Biz >>>> BPOS - Microsoft Online Services - www.Microsoft-Online-Services.com >>>> >>>> >>>> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <Charlie(a)mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in >>>> message news:OBQFtv28KHA.2248(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>> Plus I'm not at all sure I'd choose to move to EBS at this point, >>>>> given that the product has been discontinued. A simple move off of SBS >>>>> to "normal" Windows Server + Exchange could be done on fewer servers >>>>> and with less pain, and would not have one looking at a potential >>>>> second migration later. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Charlie. >>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Cliff Galiher - MVP" <cgaliher(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:e8s4Qu18KHA.2248(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>> You are correct. The three servers are installed individually, not >>>>>> simultaneously. The third server to be installed is the messaging >>>>>> server, so to migrate exchange, SBS must still be available *after* >>>>>> the installation of the third server completes. Virtualizing can, of >>>>>> course, keep the physical hardware count down, but careful >>>>>> considerations must be made when deciding to virtualize. There are >>>>>> trade-offs. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Cliff >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Jim Behning SBS MVP" <jimbehning(a)doesthisblockpork.mindspring.com> >>>>>> wrote in message news:8ucqu55l5m4n1a10quo16vg5gl2jh47jdv(a)4ax.com... >>>>>>> EBS is a three server solution. I have not installed one but I >>>>>>> understand that part of the setup is seeing all three servers at the >>>>>>> same time, but I could be wrong. I do not believe you can avoid >>>>>>> three >>>>>>> new servers. I believe part of the process is the new EBS pulls AD >>>>>>> stuff over and Exchange stuff. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you export all of your email, do not care about AD and >>>>>>> workstation >>>>>>> profiles, and are not using Sharepoint then you could backup your >>>>>>> old >>>>>>> SBS, scrap the SBS 2008 and use the old SBS as one of your 3 new >>>>>>> servers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloadS/details.aspx?familyid=191B141E-3A1F-4C1B-BD2D-15623751E518&displaylang=en >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, 14 May 2010 11:44:20 +0100, "John" >>>>>>> <info(a)nospam.infovis.co.uk> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Once we run out of 75 license limit of sbs 2008 premium is the >>>>>>>>migration to >>>>>>>>sbs 2008 essential an upgrade or a reinstall of the server is >>>>>>>>required? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Many Thanks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Regards >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> See what SBS support is working on >>>>>>> http://blogs.technet.com/sbs/default.aspx >>>>>>> Check your SBS with the SBS Best Practices Analyzer >>>>>>> http://blogs.technet.com/sbs/archive/tags/BPA/default.aspx >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >
From: Leythos on 15 May 2010 15:42 In article <#ytTeGF9KHA.3176(a)TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>, Charlie(a)mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org says... > The one place I see a plus with the cloud and e-mail is FOPE (ForeFront > Online Protection for Exchange) or equivalent services such as > ExchangeDefender. Here you're keeping the vast majority of the c-r-a-p off > my server and off my bandwidth, while not inhibiting my ability to get mail > if I suddenly can't use your service. (All it takes is a 10 second logon to > ZoneEdit to change the MX record.) And, at least with ExchangeDefender, > you're providing a valuable backup service in case my server is down (or > unreachable) for somereason. > I'm still not sure the cost savings or backup is worth it. As an example, I install firewalls for all businesses, no exceptions. Those firewall have inexpensive Anti-Spam and Anti-Virus services for SMTP/POP3, so the protection is there and take care of before reaching the server. Since you still have to have AV software on your laptop or server for files, that won't change anything. As for the backup - well, if you're using Exchange in cached mode you already have a backup that you can export. As for backup email service, assuming you already own a domain, most come with cheap email service in the domain name, and it should already be a Priority 20 MX record with your own server being a Priority 0 or 10 MX record - you should also have Exchange set to pull email from the backup mail location. There are also other methods that are very cheap. No, there is a cost that people have not talked about. I have a dozen servers here, running 24/7, have a couple generators, UPS's, etc... One of my real costs is the Electricity to run the UPS, Switch, Firewall and Server for a small shop, it amounts to about $37/mo at our local rates, that doesn't include the additional electric cost for the AC BTU load. There is also the additional cost of Business Insurance, also costing about $20/mo per customers server solution. I looked at a solution from GoDaddy for Hosted Exchange, about $60/month, and they still needed a file server in their office, still needed a UPS, still needed remote access to computers.... It's just not economical in the long run to use external solutions when you have a reasonable power/internet solution available. -- You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that. Trust yourself. spam999free(a)rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
From: Leythos on 15 May 2010 15:46 In article <8F412BAC-0AA8-4C76-B3D9-058104B60CC0(a)microsoft.com>, russ(a)REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says... > This is the future of Cloud. > ZERO Maintenance, Total Control. > I don't believe it's Zero maintenance and I don't believe the users have total control, not for one second. I managed a company, 3 shifts, 70 active licenses, dozens of printers, 16 fax lines, 5 servers, with SBS as the foundation, on 8 hours per month average over 3 years and did almost all of it remotely. It's all in how you build the solution, at least in my opinion. I have many clients that I've never met, never been to their locations, managed for years, and they have a chap they call in when I need a hand, once every 8-12 months, to replace a drive/PSU, and that's about the extent of it - all of these run 24/7, no malware, clean machines, and are designed as business machines with people that understand that workers do not have a right to internet access or personal email or personal devices on the company network. -- You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that. Trust yourself. spam999free(a)rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
From: Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] on 15 May 2010 16:18
The world is changing... That's all I'm saying We can debate all we want It's up to the people who write the checks to make the decisions... Best wishes to all... Russ -- Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC Small Business Server/Computer Support - www.SBITS.Biz Question or Second Opinion - www.PersonalITConsultant.com BPOS - Microsoft Online Services - www.BPOSMadeEasy.com "Leythos" <spam999free(a)rrohio.com> wrote in message news:MPG.2658c4364680529a98a36b(a)us.news.astraweb.com... > In article <8F412BAC-0AA8-4C76-B3D9-058104B60CC0(a)microsoft.com>, > russ(a)REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz says... >> This is the future of Cloud. >> ZERO Maintenance, Total Control. >> > > I don't believe it's Zero maintenance and I don't believe the users have > total control, not for one second. > > I managed a company, 3 shifts, 70 active licenses, dozens of printers, > 16 fax lines, 5 servers, with SBS as the foundation, on 8 hours per > month average over 3 years and did almost all of it remotely. > > It's all in how you build the solution, at least in my opinion. > > I have many clients that I've never met, never been to their locations, > managed for years, and they have a chap they call in when I need a hand, > once every 8-12 months, to replace a drive/PSU, and that's about the > extent of it - all of these run 24/7, no malware, clean machines, and > are designed as business machines with people that understand that > workers do not have a right to internet access or personal email or > personal devices on the company network. > > -- > You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little > voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that. > Trust yourself. > spam999free(a)rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address) |