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From: Mike Rosenberg on 31 May 2010 14:26 isw <isw(a)witzend.com> wrote: > > The bottom line remains, there are some things which will cause Windows > > converts trouble here and there while we adapt to Mac methodology. > > And in most cases, that will turn out to be in situations where > Microsoft "got it wrong" when they tried to emulate the Mac UI. I have a lot of former and current Windows users as clients and, honestly, I have to say that most of the confusion comes from situations where the two platforms are simply different. Seriously, I think that, in many cases, it's not a matter of Apple got it right or MS got it wrong, they just did it differently. The majority of the situations where I feel MS got it wrong are in areas that the average user don't go near often, if at all. I'm thinking of network and shared printer situations, for example. -- Favorite yoga position: Rosh hashavasana, the high holy pose Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi>
From: Wes Groleau on 31 May 2010 14:35 On 05-31-2010 14:26, Mike Rosenberg wrote: > The majority of the situations where I feel MS got it wrong are in areas > that the average user don't go near often, if at all. I'm thinking of > network and shared printer situations, for example. Because if they screw up enough places the "average user" goes, they would be out of business. -- Wes Groleau Linguaphone and the place of grammar 1954 http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1586
From: Richard Maine on 31 May 2010 14:52 Timothy Mathews <NOSPAMtsmohio(a)yahoo.ca> wrote: > The problem is, for those of us somewhat new to Mac, we'd never even > look at "file" when still thinking of editing. AFTER having finally > found that, it does make sense but Windows types will be looking for > something in editing or tools or anyplace EXCEPT file... I'm sorry, but I do not believe your claim that it is somehow general to "Windows types" that they would be looking elsewhere. I've used my share of Windows systems (and many others - I started using computers well over 40 years ago), and the File sure seemed like the obvious place to me. To check my memory, I just now booted up a copy of Windows XP (in VMWare) and brought up a text file in Windows Notepad. Sure enough, the Save and Save As menu items are under the File pulldown, just as I thought I recalled and just as in most simillar things on my Mac. They are also in the File menu in the Windows Edit utility.... and in MS Word. So far, they have been in the file menu in every single app I tried, be it on Windows or OS X. I certainly can believe that you had a "senior moment" (regardless of your age) and didn't happen to think of looking under File at the time. That kind of thing invariably happens to anyone at times; it sure happens to me. But I'm going to call BS on the claim that somehow "Windows types" would in general not think to look under File for menu entries to save changes. If they don't think to do that, it looks like they are going to have a pretty hard time on Windows, because that's where it seems to be on most Windows apps. In fact, I'd say that was about as close to a universal convention as I've seen, crossing many operating systems, including ones from before GUIs. (The DOS edit obviously has its genesis in pre-Windows days). > The bottom line remains, there are some things which will cause Windows > converts trouble here and there while we adapt to Mac methodology. Of course. But where to find the Save and Save As menu entries isn't an example of that. Plenty of examples do exist, but that isn't one. If you start thinking that every problem you run into is somehow a Mac versus Windows thing, then your transition will be harder. There are some real ones, but if you label everything with that color, it is almost bound to make the process harder by souring you to it. -- Richard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience; email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment. domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain
From: Jolly Roger on 31 May 2010 15:24 In article <1jjd17m.19uxibdx6rhubN%mikePOST(a)TOGROUPmacconsult.com>, mikePOST(a)TOGROUPmacconsult.com (Mike Rosenberg) wrote: > isw <isw(a)witzend.com> wrote: > > > > The bottom line remains, there are some things which will cause Windows > > > converts trouble here and there while we adapt to Mac methodology. > > > > And in most cases, that will turn out to be in situations where > > Microsoft "got it wrong" when they tried to emulate the Mac UI. > > I have a lot of former and current Windows users as clients and, > honestly, I have to say that most of the confusion comes from situations > where the two platforms are simply different. Seriously, I think that, > in many cases, it's not a matter of Apple got it right or MS got it > wrong, they just did it differently. > > The majority of the situations where I feel MS got it wrong are in areas > that the average user don't go near often, if at all. I'm thinking of > network and shared printer situations, for example. It is interesting to note that before Apple sued them, Windows was actually *much* more similar to Mac OS (the menu bar was at the top, window controls were on the left side of window title bars, and so on). -- Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR
From: Phillip Jones on 31 May 2010 16:51
Richard Maine wrote: > Timothy Mathews<NOSPAMtsmohio(a)yahoo.ca> wrote: > >> The problem is, for those of us somewhat new to Mac, we'd never even >> look at "file" when still thinking of editing. AFTER having finally >> found that, it does make sense but Windows types will be looking for >> something in editing or tools or anyplace EXCEPT file... > > I'm sorry, but I do not believe your claim that it is somehow general to > "Windows types" that they would be looking elsewhere. I've used my share > of Windows systems (and many others - I started using computers well > over 40 years ago), and the File sure seemed like the obvious place to > me. To check my memory, I just now booted up a copy of Windows XP (in > VMWare) and brought up a text file in Windows Notepad. Sure enough, the > Save and Save As menu items are under the File pulldown, just as I > thought I recalled and just as in most simillar things on my Mac. > > They are also in the File menu in the Windows Edit utility.... and in MS > Word. So far, they have been in the file menu in every single app I > tried, be it on Windows or OS X. > > I certainly can believe that you had a "senior moment" (regardless of > your age) and didn't happen to think of looking under File at the time. > That kind of thing invariably happens to anyone at times; it sure > happens to me. > > But I'm going to call BS on the claim that somehow "Windows types" would > in general not think to look under File for menu entries to save > changes. If they don't think to do that, it looks like they are going to > have a pretty hard time on Windows, because that's where it seems to be > on most Windows apps. In fact, I'd say that was about as close to a > universal convention as I've seen, crossing many operating systems, > including ones from before GUIs. (The DOS edit obviously has its genesis > in pre-Windows days). > >> The bottom line remains, there are some things which will cause Windows >> converts trouble here and there while we adapt to Mac methodology. > > Of course. But where to find the Save and Save As menu entries isn't an > example of that. Plenty of examples do exist, but that isn't one. > > If you start thinking that every problem you run into is somehow a Mac > versus Windows thing, then your transition will be harder. There are > some real ones, but if you label everything with that color, it is > almost bound to make the process harder by souring you to it. > for applications Like say Office. Other than features unique to one platform or the other the biggest differences cosmetic looks of the UI. And the keyboard shortcuts. Most keyboard shortcuts on Mac use the Command Key (Apple Key) as the modifier. while until PC keyboards came out with the windows key (which is in similar position on keyboard) most of their key strokes used the Control Or Alt key. for example Save is Command-S on PC would be Control or Alternate-S other than the modifiers the other part is identical S is for Save P for Print C for Copy V for Paste X for Cut The second through the fourth main menu options names are File, Edit, View most likely they are the same on PC. AS most PC people cut their teeth on DOS the are more use to using Keyboard shortcuts whether using the mouse is faster. US Mac People started out using Mouse which is faster to us and a lot easier than committing to memory all the short cuts. So PC to Mac converts have to get use to using the mouse more , which they may not be used to. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it" http://www.phillipmjones.net mailto:pjones1(a)kimbanet.com |