Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 16 Jul 2008 09:57 On Jul 15, 12:16�am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > "Antares 531" <gordonlrDEL...(a)swbell.net> wrote in message > > news:72in74drr47ktr9l98raqph18ep0s1h4cp(a)4ax.com... > > > > > > > On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:25:09 -0400, Brian E. Clark > > <re...(a)newsgroup.only.please> wrote: > > >>In article <4d2a74pf351she9f40vri1ku32c7s40a9j@ > >>4ax.com>, Antares 531 said... > > >>> Fulfillment of prophecies is the most convincing "evidence" for the > >>> reliability of the Bible, > > >>Most convincing of all are those prophecies written > >>after the events they predict. > > > Bryan, I see your point, but I maintain that there are many Biblical > > prophecies that were written LONG before they were fulfilled, and the > > history/dating can not have been manipulated. Even if the dating of, > > say the prophecies of Daniel can be argued a bit, it can't be > > stretched to a date later than the time of Jesus's life. If you > > haven't already done so, please visit this site and check some of > > these items out. > > >http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/prophecy.shtml > > > Gordon > > I read it. > Am I missing something? > What exactly is impressive about Daniel's prophecy? > > -- > Steve O You are missing comprehension. The head of gold is the Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonians, then there are the Persians, then the Greeks, then the Romans, etc., till you get to the iron mixed with miry clay, which signify the kingdoms of modern Europe. Most people are capable of understanding the prophecy, but probably no atheist would be able to do it. The prophecy was given in 600 B.C. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 16 Jul 2008 10:02 On Jul 15, 12:57 am, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > On Jul 15, 3:58 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 14, 8:30�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > > >news:66e61aa9-559f-4671-a2ea-6bc1905bebe9(a)a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com.... > > > On Jul 13, 6:28?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > > > >news:fc9d57b1-a5d8-4dea-b10c-2de186d77c39(a)m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > > > > On Jul 12, 5:43?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > > > > >news:43c4adf8-d379-4a72-815c-bc35c1c84eaf(a)b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Jul 11, 5:04?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > > > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > > > > > >news:6ebcae55-3c20-4ea3-960e-25f802c31860(a)s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > On Jul 10, 8:51?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > > > > > > >news:1b629e70-db18-4208-a3da-4381dcebabb4(a)p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 8:45?pm, ben_dolan_...(a)reet.com (Ben Dolan) wrote: > > > > > > > > > rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > There were some atheists who said Harry Potter went on the train > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > London to wizard's school. > > > > > > > > > And once again, child, you have confused fiction with reality... > > > > > > > > Harry Potter is fiction. ?The woman who wrote the books said it was > > > > > > > fiction. ?I know this may come as a shock to atheists. > > > > > > > =================================== > > > > > > > > The bible is also fiction. We don't even know who wrote it. > > > > > > > I know this may come as a shock to christians. > > > > > > > Get over it. > > > > > > > No, Smiler, the Bible tells about the construction of Hezekiah's > > > > > > tunnel. ? Didn't we discuss this before. > > > > > > ================================ > > > > > > And the Harry Potter books tell us about Kings Cross station and > > > > > > London. > > > > > > Both the Harry Potter books and the bible are fiction. > > > > > > Get over it. > > > > > > > Smiler, > > > > > > If you want to believe that the Bible is fiction, it seems to me that > > > > > you are free to believe that the Bible is fiction. ?I will tell you > > > > > what. ?Why don't you decide for yourself what you believe, and I will > > > > > decide for myself what I believe? ?Does this seem unfair to you? > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > Not unfair if you keep your stupid beliefs out of a.a. > > > > > > Smiler, > > > > > The godless one > > > > > a.a.# 2279- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > As I said, take sci.physics and sci.physics relativity out of the > > > > header. > > > > ==================================== > > > > That won't stop your stupid comments from appearing in a.a., will it. > > > > You take a.a. out of your header. > > > > Think about it, Smiler. �I am not going to go to alt.atheism. �I have > > > no interest in atheists. > > > ============================ > > > Then why do your lying posts appear in a.a., LIAR? > > > > Smiler, > > > The godless one > > > a.a.# 2279- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Because you have not yet taken sci.physics and sci.physics relativity > > out of the header. > > Robert B. Winn > > To remove your posts from alt.atheism, you would need to take a.a out > of your headers.  Us changing ours isn't going to change yours. > Are you going to stop lying soon? > > Al- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, you atheists were the ones who barged into sci.physics and sci.physics.relativity. As I said before, I do not go to alt.atheism. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 16 Jul 2008 10:04 On Jul 15, 1:18�am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > Linda Fox wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:23:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > wrote: > > >> � I really believe that it certainly does prove certain verses in the > >> Old Testament to be true which describe the digging of Hezekiah's > >> tunnel. �Otherwise, atheists need to explain why there is a tunnel > >> exactly where the Bible in three books of the Old Testament says a > >> tunnel was dug as a conduit for water. > > > Not all of the OT is theology - quite a fair amount of it is standard > > Jewish history, whether by aural tradition or, in the later books, > > written. As a parallel, we don't know how much of what we have from > > Homer is true of Greece and Troy, since that too is based on aural > > tradition which means it would have been embroidered, or even > > falsified, along the way. My own feeling about that is that much of > > the dynastic detail (apart from things like Helen being born out of > > Leda by Zeus as a swan) is possibly more reliable because when it was > > being passed down that was likely to have been the only kind of > > chronicle they could make; just a theory, though, and I doubt we'll > > ever know. > > > Linda ff > > surely its oral �- as in spoken - rather than aural, as in > heard..tradition..? > > But broadly I agree. The Bible (OT) is the history, philosophy, myhology > and moral codes of a bunch of desert tribes. > > The NT is a political document written by the romans to keep the > barbarians in their place. > > With probably as much historical acccuracy as 'Conan the Barbarian'- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The only writer of the new Testament who was a Roman citizen was Paul. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 16 Jul 2008 10:13 On Jul 15, 1:53 am, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > On Jul 15, 4:30 pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > > > > > > > Steve O wrote: > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >news:a3c2b9ae-59ae-4bfd-b7cf-fcda98b26225(a)d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com.... > > >> On Jul 14, 5:12�pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > > >>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > > >>>news:44f19f98-4d96-4419-a87a-d6bdbd73f31b(a)c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > > > >>> >> > Their idea is that if Hezekiah's tunnel exists, then Harry > > >>> Potter >> > has > > >>> >> > to be true because the train station in London is mentioned in > > >>> Harry > > >>> >> > Potter. > > > >>> >> Exactly. Since we know therefore that harry potter isn't true, the > > >>> >> fact > > >>> >> of hezekiahs tunnel means the bible is obviously false. Since we have > > >>> >> true facts referred to in works of complete fiction. > > > >>> >> By your reasoning at least. > > > >>> > Well, you have it exactly as atheists have been telling me it is. > > >>> > Don't ask me what it is supposed to mean. > > >>> > Robert B. Winn > > > >>> Here is an example of rbwinn's logic. > > > >>> Sheep are mentioned in the bible > > >>> Sheep exist today > > >>> The bible is accurate and there is a God > > > >>> -- > > >>> Steve O > > >> Well, no, Steve O.  Here is an example.  Atheists were claiming that > > >> nothing existed on earth today that could prove anything in the > > >> Bible.  So I said, What about Hezekiah's tunnel?  These atheists had > > >> never heard of Hezekiah's tunnel.  So after they looked it up, they > > >> said, The fact that a tunnel exists no more proves the Bible to be > > >> true than Harry Potter leaving from the train station in London to go > > >> to wizard's school. > > > > Here's where you get confused every time. (or deliberately lie) > > > When they said "nothing exists on earth today that could prove anything > > > in the bible" they were talking about the SPECIAL claims in the bible, > > > not the ordinary mundane things such as tunnels, sheep, goats or shekels. > > > Yet, for some reason, you choose to lie about this and attribute claims > > > to atheists which  don't exist. > > > You are either a complete liar or you are stuck on stupid. > > > Both. > > Its fairly clear our robbo is probably schizoid, probably desperately > > confused, and probably on medication, and has access to a terminal.And > > is not the brightest candle in the coal mine. > > > He's desperately trying to put some meaning in his life, to make some > > sense of it, and the Bible is his latest bag.  It probably puts some > > hope in a hopeless life. > > > He's just smart enough to see what a mess his life is, but not smart > > enough to work out how to change it by himself: so naturally he looks > > for help. No one has probably given him any, but the bible makes him a > > promise. By fixating on the Jesus symbol, he at least has one constant > > thing to cling to and some hope. In short, he is addicted to Jesus. > > > It's probably slightly better than being addicted to smack, and its > > certainly a lot cheaper. > > > I've met more than a few robbos in my time. There's probably some > > intelligence there, but coupled to an unusual mental condition. Such > > peoples experience is not ordinary, and their attempts to make sense of > > it result in some pretty weird ways of thinking about it and dealing > > with it. Often they get involved in some cult or other. Or end up > > prematurely dead from drug overdoses and the like. Or go off the rails > > and start seeing visions and end up in the funny farm. > > Probably very true of rbwinn. > When he told us that he is a welder, I actually wrote some real advise > for him to work hard and look forward towards a retirement, instead of > wasting time in the church on Sundays. Sundays pay thrice as much. > However, my email could not get through...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Welding is fairly easy compared to picking oranges. I should be able to keep welding until I am about 97 years old. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 16 Jul 2008 10:17
On Jul 15, 5:24 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 14, 8:27 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 14, 5:12�pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>news:44f19f98-4d96-4419-a87a-d6bdbd73f31b(a)c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>> Their idea is that if Hezekiah's tunnel exists, then Harry Potter has > >>>>>>> to be true because the train station in London is mentioned in Harry > >>>>>>> Potter. > >>>>>> Exactly. Since we know therefore that harry potter isn't true, the fact > >>>>>> of hezekiahs tunnel means the bible is obviously false. Since we have > >>>>>> true facts referred to in works of complete fiction. > >>>>>> By your reasoning at least. > >>>>> Well, you have it exactly as atheists have been telling me it is. > >>>>> Don't ask me what it is supposed to mean. > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>> Here is an example of rbwinn's logic. > >>>> Sheep are mentioned in the bible > >>>> Sheep exist today > >>>> The bible is accurate and there is a God > >>>> -- > >>>> Steve O > >>> Well, no, Steve O.  Here is an example.  Atheists were claiming that > >>> nothing existed on earth today that could prove anything in the > >>> Bible.  So I said, What about Hezekiah's tunnel?  These atheists had > >>> never heard of Hezekiah's tunnel.  So after they looked it up, they > >>> said, The fact that a tunnel exists no more proves the Bible to be > >>> true than Harry Potter leaving from the train station in London to go > >>> to wizard's school. > >> The original assertion remains in force.  Hezekiah's Tunnel does not > >> prove anything. > > >>>   I really believe that it certainly does prove certain verses in the > >>> Old Testament to be true which describe the digging of Hezekiah's > >>> tunnel.  Otherwise, atheists need to explain why there is a tunnel > >>> exactly where the Bible in three books of the Old Testament says a > >>> tunnel was dug as a conduit for water. > >> For the same reason that King's Cross Station exists. > > >> Wow, you REALLY aren't getting the analogy, are you? > > > There is nothing in the Book of 2 Chronicles about the construction of > > King's Cross Station. > > Wow, you REALLY aren't getting the analogy, are you? > > -- Well, if you can provide a description of the construction of Kings Cross station from the time it was built, maybe we could compare it to the Biblical account of the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel. Robert B. Winn |