Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
|
From: Darrell Stec on 21 Jun 2008 20:23 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 20, 6:24�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >> news:b3f38615-2ef2-416d-b5c8-dd1b4b0c7a19(a)w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >> On Jun 20, 3:16 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > rbwinn wrote: >> > > On Jun 18, 11:28 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> > >> rbwinn wrote: >> > >>> On Jun 18, 3:59?pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >> > >>> wrote: >> > >>>> rbwinn wrote: >> > >>>>> On Jun 17, 5:34?pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" >> > >>>>> Well, Al, we have the ideas of atheists living today , and we >> > >>>>> have the >> > >>>>> writings of the apostles. >> > >>>> I hate to break this to you, but there is not one apostle for >> > >>>> which we have >> > >>>> any writings. ?None of the New Testament books (except for the >> > >>>> Pauline >> > >>>> epistles) have any names associated with them. ?And in fact the >> > >>>> earliest >> > >>>> manuscripts did not have the names of the biblical books in them. >> > >>>> ?It is >> > >>>> apparent that the titles were added by a second or third copier >> > >>>> because the >> > >>>> lettering is not in the hand of the first and oldest scribe. >> > >>>>> Who should I believe? ?This is really a >> > >>>>> tough one. >> > >>>> It isn't a tough one at all. ?Your first statement is false. ?So >> > >>>> YOU are not >> > >>>> to believed because you wallow in ignorance. >> > >>>>> Well, I think I will believe the apostles. >> > >>>> How will you do that? ?They wrote nothing. >> > >>>>> Robert B. Winn >> > >>> Let's see, Matthew was an apostle, John was an apostle, Peter was >> > >>> an apostle, James was an apostle, Paul was an apostle, then there >> > >>> are writings of some people who were just disciples. All of these >> > >>> people seem more believable to me than you do Darrell. Maybe it is >> > >>> just your attitude. >> > >> What is your standard for assessment? You often say X "seems more >> > >> reliable" than Y. You apparently distrust the honest inquiry of >> > >> subject matter experts, so from that position of ignorance, how do >> > >> you arrive at >> > >> the correct alternative?- Hide quoted text - >> >> > > Well, that does not really matter, as long as I get to the correct >> > > alternative. At any rate, Darrell has quite a story to tell, but, >> > > just like Harry Pottrer, none of it is true. >> >> > That's my point, you've got no reliable way of evaluating which IS the >> > correct alternative. >> >> > Can you say how Darrell is wrong rather than simply issuing a denial?- >> > Hide quoted text - >> >> Darrell claims that there were no synagogues at the time of the life >> of Christ. �According to him, the gospels had to have been written >> after 200 A.D. because atheists of today have said that no synagogues >> existed before that time. >> It is easy to see that Darrell and his atheist authorities are wrong >> about this because of the writings of Luke and Paul, who were >> Christian missionaries sent to Asia Minor. �Whenever Luke and Paul >> went to a city in Asia Minor where they had not been before they >> always went to the Jewish synagogue. �So if there were no synagogues >> at the time of Christ, why were there synagogues all over Asia Minor >> just after he was crucified? >> --------------------------------------------- >> >> Because the stories attributed to Luke and Paul were not written 'soon >> after' your supposed jesus was supposed to have died. >> They were written at least a hundred years after that supposed event. By >> that time, there were synagogues all over Asia Minor. The writers didn't >> know that the synagogues were a recent introduction. >> >> Your reply will, of course, be to either accuse me of lying or to change >> the subject completely. >> I expect no reasoned rebuttal from you. >> > Well, how did Jesus go to the synagogue at Nazareth and read from the > Book of Isaiah? I guess you never thought about that. > Robert B. Winn Because the authors of that fiction had him do that. It was because it was not written by people who lived during the supposed lifetime of their hero and did not live in the Palestine area. By the time those stories were written synagogues did exist. But they were not written in the first century CE and synagogues did not exist in the first century CE. They authors did not know that. It is things like that which scholars use to tell that the gospels are a late product, not an early product contemporaneous with the supposed lifetime of Joshua the oiled one. -- Later, Darrell Stec darstec(a)neo.rr.com Webpage Sorcery http://webpagesorcery.com We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
From: rbwinn on 21 Jun 2008 20:23 On Jun 21, 3:40 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 20, 10:30 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 20, 3:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 20, 5:44�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>news:91aff9de-ef71-4690-8e27-742500d48b32(a)b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>> Well, you atheists have some strange ideas. �Your problem is that all > >>>>>> you have is talk. �We have the Bible. > >>>>>> ============= > >>>>>> OK then, different tack. > >>>>>> What do you have? > >>>>>> What is the Bible? > >>>>>> What makes up the Bible? > >>>>>> Who decided what is and is not part of the Bible? > >>>>>> Even if you believe, how can you TRUST a collection of documents that were > >>>>>> transcribed from oral tradition, that have been edited, redacted, translated > >>>>>> from previous translations, whose components were added or omitted according > >>>>>> to pervailing theological fashion over several millennia? > >>>>> Well, in the church I belong to, we do it because we have further > >>>>> revelation on the same subject. > >>>> The golden plates?- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> No, we do not have the golden plates. > >> Yes, I know. I was asking if that was the further revelation you rather > >> mysteriously referred to?- Hide quoted text - > > > The golden plates were just golden plates.  They were not revelation. > > I wouldn't have said that they were even that! ;-) Anyway, would you be > willing to explain your revelation a bit more? I'd be interested to know > how God is talking to his flock these days.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The way he always did, through His prophet. You atheists were claiming that because Moses did not seem to be world renowned at his time, he could not have existed. The fact remains that he was the prophet of God until the Israelites entered the promised land. So now you are saying that you did not know there was a prophet of God today. I could tell you did not. You had never even considered the possibility. Robert B. Winn
From: Smiler on 21 Jun 2008 20:30 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:914a57c2-4339-4222-a734-ded3636e2882(a)b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... On Jun 20, 6:24?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:b3f38615-2ef2-416d-b5c8-dd1b4b0c7a19(a)w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 20, 3:16 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > On Jun 18, 11:28 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > >>> On Jun 18, 3:59?pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>> On Jun 17, 5:34?pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > >>>>> Well, Al, we have the ideas of atheists living today , and we have > > >>>>> the > > >>>>> writings of the apostles. > > >>>> I hate to break this to you, but there is not one apostle for which > > >>>> we have > > >>>> any writings. ?None of the New Testament books (except for the > > >>>> Pauline > > >>>> epistles) have any names associated with them. ?And in fact the > > >>>> earliest > > >>>> manuscripts did not have the names of the biblical books in them. > > >>>> ?It > > >>>> is > > >>>> apparent that the titles were added by a second or third copier > > >>>> because the > > >>>> lettering is not in the hand of the first and oldest scribe. > > >>>>> Who should I believe? ?This is really a > > >>>>> tough one. > > >>>> It isn't a tough one at all. ?Your first statement is false. ?So > > >>>> YOU > > >>>> are not > > >>>> to believed because you wallow in ignorance. > > >>>>> Well, I think I will believe the apostles. > > >>>> How will you do that? ?They wrote nothing. > > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > > >>> Let's see, Matthew was an apostle, John was an apostle, Peter was an > > >>> apostle, James was an apostle, Paul was an apostle, then there are > > >>> writings of some people who were just disciples. All of these people > > >>> seem more believable to me than you do Darrell. Maybe it is just > > >>> your > > >>> attitude. > > >> What is your standard for assessment? You often say X "seems more > > >> reliable" than Y. You apparently distrust the honest inquiry of > > >> subject > > >> matter experts, so from that position of ignorance, how do you arrive > > >> at > > >> the correct alternative?- Hide quoted text - > > > > Well, that does not really matter, as long as I get to the correct > > > alternative. At any rate, Darrell has quite a story to tell, but, > > > just like Harry Pottrer, none of it is true. > > > That's my point, you've got no reliable way of evaluating which IS the > > correct alternative. > > > Can you say how Darrell is wrong rather than simply issuing a denial?- > > Hide quoted text - > > Darrell claims that there were no synagogues at the time of the life > of Christ. ?According to him, the gospels had to have been written > after 200 A.D. because atheists of today have said that no synagogues > existed before that time. > It is easy to see that Darrell and his atheist authorities are wrong > about this because of the writings of Luke and Paul, who were > Christian missionaries sent to Asia Minor. ?Whenever Luke and Paul > went to a city in Asia Minor where they had not been before they > always went to the Jewish synagogue. ?So if there were no synagogues > at the time of Christ, why were there synagogues all over Asia Minor > just after he was crucified? > --------------------------------------------- > > Because the stories attributed to Luke and Paul were not written 'soon > after' your supposed jesus was supposed to have died. > They were written at least a hundred years after that supposed event. By > that time, there were synagogues all over Asia Minor. The writers didn't > know that the synagogues were a recent introduction. > > Your reply will, of course, be to either accuse me of lying or to change > the > subject completely. > I expect no reasoned rebuttal from you. > Well, how did Jesus go to the synagogue at Nazareth and read from the Book of Isaiah? I guess you never thought about that. ------------------------------------- He didn't. Just as Harry Potter didn't leave from Platform 9 and 3/4 at Kings Cross station to go to Hogwarts. Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279
From: rbwinn on 21 Jun 2008 20:30 On Jun 21, 3:47 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 21, 3:51 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 20, 3:13�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> The Petrine epistles were not written by the fisherman character Peter. > >>>>>> Those epistles were written at the end of the second century CE or > >>>>>> beginning of the third century CE. �The Greek in the Petrine epistles is > >>>>>> very refined. �It would be like reading Benjamin Franklin's Poor Richards > >>>>>> Almanac with references to Gandalf, Frodo, trains and planes. > >>>>> Well, you atheists have some strange ideas. �Your problem is that all > >>>>> you have is talk. �We have the Bible. > >>>> How do you think that handicaps us? I'm very happy to accept honest > >>>> inquiry over ancient myth.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> The only thing you ever talk about is the Bible. > >> What an odd thing to say.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > You have never discussed anything else with me. > > You're not the only person I've ever talked to. Would you like to > discuss something else?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Discuss whatever you want to discuss. I do not care what you discuss. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 21 Jun 2008 20:33
On Jun 21, 3:57 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 21, 3:54�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Well, you seem to have faith in Spiderman and Harry Potter. > >> And you don't believe that London exists.- Hide quoted text - > > > I don't?  So where does the Queen of England live? > > It's your logic to defend. If you find it inconsistent, perhaps you need > to revise it. I do not need to revise anything. I was not the one claiming the reality of Harry Potter. Robert B. Winn |