Jihad needs scientists
in [Design]
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From: T Wake on 15 Nov 2006 13:11 <jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message news:ejf0uq$8ss_002(a)s792.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com... > In article <GZadnR1moYq8q8fYnZ2dnUVZ8qmdnZ2d(a)pipex.net>, > "T Wake" <usenet.es7at(a)gishpuppy.com> wrote: >> >><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message >>news:ejckhl$8qk_003(a)s858.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com... >>> In article <yt-dne7WCNI5zMrYRVnysw(a)pipex.net>, >>> "T Wake" <usenet.es7at(a)gishpuppy.com> wrote: >>>> >>>><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message >>>>news:ej7ffd$8qk_042(a)s851.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com... >>>>> In article <455615CC.2B8A045E(a)hotmail.com>, >>>>> Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: >>>>>>> >> Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> >> Raising the minimum wage is stupid and insane. >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> >Why ? >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> It causes all other prices to eventually go up, especially >>>>>>> >> housing. >>>>>>> >> It eliminates wage competition. People's real productivity is >>>>>>> >> no longer measured nor rewarded with wage. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >I saw it can be a slow as $5 an hour. >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> >Can anyone actually live on that ? >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> $10k/year? Yes. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >You wouldn't get far on ?5263 over here for sure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I didn't say it was easy and one also has to give up a lot >>>>>>> of middle class "attitudes" ;-). >>>>>> >>>>>>Around here you'd pay ~ ?3000 p.a. minimum just for >>>>>>a very basic rented room ! >>>>> >>>>> In the US you can't plan on renting when you stop working. Part >>>>> of way we live is to spend a part of our wages on a place to live >>>>> that will become yours after a few years. That way you can >>>>> eliminate paying rent as part of your living expense. >>>> >>>>Your argument has more holes than swiss cheese. >>>> >>>>You cant plan on renting anywhere when you stop working. If you are >>>>earning >>>>$200 a week, how do you save for a place to live? Where do you live >>>>while >>>>you are saving? What do you eat? >>> >>> When I said plan, I meant long-term planning. That is why people >>> buy their own house and start paying the money they earn while >>> young to pay off the mortgage. When the mortgage is paid off, >>> they don't pay rent. The plan to stay in the house when >>> they quit working. >> >>When you are earning $200 per week, how much can you spare to pay off a >>mortgage? What duration are US Mortgages? How much of a deposit is >>normally >>put down? >> >>I know you meant long term planning, but earning minimum wage does not >>lend >>itself to that kind of living. People have to eat. They have to pay bills. >>They have to be able to save for a deposit. They have to live somewhere >>while they are waiting to buy their house. Etc. > > You don't have to borrow. The Portuguese around here make it a > family affair. Everybody in the extended family works, and then > they buy a house for cash. No borrowing. Now the family has > a house to live in and they begin to save for the next house. > Eventually everybody has their own house. Blimey. How socialist can you get. Bloody commies need to be kicked out. However it doesn't solve the problem. It is great for people who are lucky enough to be in that situation, however they are not in the majority. Also it is not stable, nor predictable. What happens if there is an accident and a house burns down killing six wage earners. End of the line for the family. This is still living on an economic knife edge. I am still waiting for you to explain how the _average_ person on minimum wage can live in the manner you suggest. You keep coming up with esoteric, _socialistic_, methods people use to circumvent the impossibility of trying to live on $200 a week. Your first "defence" was about people saving to buy their own house, now it is communal ownership and living. Make your mind up.
From: T Wake on 15 Nov 2006 13:12 <jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message news:ejf15m$8ss_004(a)s792.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com... > In article <455A52EE.ED61DAAB(a)hotmail.com>, > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>T Wake wrote: >> >>> <jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote >>> > "T Wake" <usenet.es7at(a)gishpuppy.com> wrote: >>> >><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote >>> >> >>> >>> After my tuition and dorm fee were paid, I lived on $2/month when >>> >>> I went to college; the $2 included clothes washing and Tampax. >>> >> >>> >>I defy you to feed yourself on $2 a week. I defy you to feed yourself, >>> >>travel to and from work and afford work clothes on $2 a week. >>> > >>> > I defy you to think of ways to stop spending money. >>> >>> I can think of lots of ways. What does that have to do with what I said? > You >>> claim to have lived on $2 a month as an example of how people should be >>> so >>> happy to live on $200 per week. I say not only are you living in a >>> mystical >>> past of fifty years ago, but living on a wage of $200 per week in this >>> day >>> and age is far from easy. >> >>I wonder how she got health cover on $2 a month ! > > I didn't have it. You are such a gambler.
From: T Wake on 15 Nov 2006 13:18 <jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message news:ejf14j$8ss_003(a)s792.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com... > In article <sdqdne_FT-okq8fYRVnyvg(a)pipex.net>, > "T Wake" <usenet.es7at(a)gishpuppy.com> wrote: >> >><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message >>news:ejckhl$8qk_003(a)s858.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com... >>> In article <yt-dne7WCNI5zMrYRVnysw(a)pipex.net>, >>> "T Wake" <usenet.es7at(a)gishpuppy.com> wrote: >>>> >>>><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message >>>>news:ej7ffd$8qk_042(a)s851.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com... >>>>> After my tuition and dorm fee were paid, I lived on $2/month when >>>>> I went to college; the $2 included clothes washing and Tampax. >>>> >>>>I defy you to feed yourself on $2 a week. I defy you to feed yourself, >>>>travel to and from work and afford work clothes on $2 a week. >>> >>> I defy you to think of ways to stop spending money. >> >>I can think of lots of ways. What does that have to do with what I said? >>You >>claim to have lived on $2 a month as an example of how people should be so >>happy to live on $200 per week. > > I did not claim that. I was pointing out it is possible to live > cheaply. Sorry, what part of "After my tuition and dorm fee were paid, I lived on $2/month when I went to college; the $2 included clothes washing and Tampax" was supposed to mean you did not live on $2 a month? Note you said "I lived on $2/month." How was that supposed to be interpreted? >> I say not only are you living in a mystical >>past of fifty years ago, but living on a wage of $200 per week in this day >>and age is far from easy. > > I did not claim that it was easy. That is your middle class attitude > butting in. Reign in your socialism please. Also temper your "hard working proletariat" line for a while (ever read Marx or Engles?). Saying it is far from easy does not mean that the "middle class lifestyle" you object to so much is a struggle, it means eating once a day is a struggle. It means having clothes to wear to work is a struggle. You may feel your hatred of the Bourgeois is paramount but it is misplaced here. You should have been saying all this in 1917. Does this strike a chord within you? The middle class, wherever it has got the upper hand, has put an end to all feudal, patriarchal, idyllic relations. It... has left remaining no other nexus between man and man than naked self-interest, ... for exploitation, veiled by religious and political illusions, it has substituted naked, shameless, direct, brutal exploitation... Constant revolutionising of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones... All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind. Come on /BAH, admit it. You want the class war back!
From: T Wake on 15 Nov 2006 13:25 <jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message news:ejf2ih$8ss_014(a)s792.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com... > In article <Jf06h.5426$IR4.1601(a)newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>, > <lucasea(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message >>news:ej9k4j$8ss_006(a)s785.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com... >>> In article <8yQ5h.5348$Sw1.1153(a)newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, >>> <lucasea(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>"krw" <krw(a)att.bizzzz> wrote in message >>>>news:MPG.1fc11e03f06bbb69989af7(a)news.individual.net... >>>>> In article <1eWdnc1_CsAzoMvYRVnyvA(a)pipex.net>, >>>>> usenet.es7at(a)gishpuppy.com says... >>>>>> >>>>>> <jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:ej4l1b$8ss_033(a)s977.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com... >>>>>> > In article <4555374F.EF500B95(a)hotmail.com>, >>>>>> > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>krw wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com says... >>>>>> >>> > jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> > > Raising the minimum wage is stupid and insane. >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> > Why ? >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Why should the federal government tell anyone what their worth >>>>>> >>> is? >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> >>> > I saw it can be a slow as $5 an hour. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> The federal minimum wage is $5.15/hr. Some states are higher >>>>>> >>> (Vermont is $7.25 and going up). I'm not sure anyone really works >>>>>> >>> for the minimum (MacD's is advertising $9.00/hr.). >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>So why the fuss over increasing what would seem to be a notional >>>>>> >>minimum ? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > You should notice that Keith is swearing. That is not is usual >>>>>> > style. I guess he's got the same problems I have. AS minimum >>>>>> > wage goes skyhigh, so do property taxes, real estate, food, other >>>>>> > taxes, and other things needed for survival. >>>>>> >>>>>> You both have claimed that "hardly anyone" would work for the minimum >>>>>> wage. >>>>>> If this is the case, it will have no impact at all. >>>>> >>>>> "Hardly anyone" who needed that job to live on. There are others >>>>> that don't "need" a "living wage". >>>> >>>>Great. So you model is Donald Trump manning the drive-through at the >>>>local >>>>McDonalds. >>> >>> That is a good job. Learning how to give change is very important. >> >> >>Have you actually *been* to a McDonalds in the last, oh, say, 30 years? >>They don't learn how to give change, they just hand you the amount of >>money >>the computer tells them to. > > People at McDonalds have to know that a penny is one cent. A > dime is 10 cents. Things like that. Making change is a complicated > process. There are adults who work at cash registers and do not > know this stuff. You know at McDonalds they hand over the sum of money they are told to, don't you? They don't get told to hand over a "dime." A number appears and they give that much money. Same as anyone else working on a cash register.
From: unsettled on 15 Nov 2006 13:48
krw wrote: > In article <ejf24s$8ss_013(a)s792.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>, > jmfbahciv(a)aol.com says... > >>In article <MPG.1fc459ba145f0210989b5d(a)news.individual.net>, >> krw <krw(a)att.bizzzz> wrote: >> >>>In article <Lzv6h.6398$Sw1.5307(a)newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, >>>lucasea(a)sbcglobal.net says... >>> >>>>"krw" <krw(a)att.bizzzz> wrote in message >>>>news:MPG.1fc3cb5179e833c9989b43(a)news.individual.net... >>>> >>>>>(of course I don't have a phone line, >>>>>so...). >>>> >>>>Well, that latter would be the real issue then, not the distance to a hub. >>> >>>No, you ditz! I choose not to have a phone line (too expensive), >>>so if I were close enough for DSL it wouldn't matter. Geez! >>> >> >>This makes you appreciate that other news group. > > > Quite a difference, eh? Almost any other newsgroup. |