Jihad needs scientists
in [Design]
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From: Eeyore on 3 Nov 2006 13:32 jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > <lucasea(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > >Yes, we know, the current US system is broken--it's what we've been saying. > >Please do try to focus. > > It is broken because insurance now pays for everything. The purpose > of insuranance has been defeated. People used to take out car > insurance for extraordinary expenses; this does not include paying > for the oil changes. > > The most broken piece of the US heath insurance is the government > providers. HMOs and other types of insurers are playing > by those rules. But it *isn't* broken in European countries. It works just fine ! > >> That is why I'm trying to point out that having insurance is > >> not a guarantee you will get access to treatment when you need it. > >> The only thing our politicians are trying to do is to make > >> the insurance available to all from a single payer, the US > >> government. This will cause a decrease in access. > > > >Evidence, please. > > I'm supposed to give evidence for things haven't happened yet > in the US but have happened in other countries. What other countries ? And what's happened ? Graham
From: unsettled on 3 Nov 2006 13:34 jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > In article <cAq2h.21305$TV3.15219(a)newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>, > <lucasea(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >>"unsettled" <unsettled(a)nonsense.com> wrote in message >>news:29d9e$454a2b92$4fe71d7$24986(a)DIALUPUSA.NET... >> >>>lucasea(a)sbcglobal.net wrote: >>> >>> >>>>"unsettled" <unsettled(a)nonsense.com> wrote in message >>>>news:5578b$454a10c6$49ecfab$24208(a)DIALUPUSA.NET... >>>> >>>> >>>>>lucasea(a)sbcglobal.net wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>"unsettled" <unsettled(a)nonsense.com> wrote in message >>>>>>news:3c732$4549ec30$4fe7336$23388(a)DIALUPUSA.NET... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Eeyore wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I am not talking about oil becoming uncompetitive. I am talking >>>>>>>>>about oil suddenly becoming unavailable. That should be a >>>>>>>>>scenario considered by all heads of state, not just the US. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>It's not going to happen short of nuclear war. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>You're obviously not old enough to personally >>>>>>>remember the fuel crisis of the early 1970's. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>First you say you're not talking about an embargo, >>>>> >>>>>Who are you talking about? Your imaginary conflation >>>>>of two distinct individuals? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>then as evidence that it will happen, >>>>> >>>>>Oil becoming unavailable by embargo is a historical >>>>>fact. >>>> >>>> >>>>I never said it wasn't....although strictly speaking, the 1970s embargo >>>>just tightened supply, it didn't become "unavailable". It was the US >>>>government's braindead decision to impose price controls that prevented >>>>demand from matching the reduced supply through price increases, thereby >>>>creating shortages. As others have pointed out, everywhere else that >>>>allowed the price to float only experienced higher prices and as a >>>>result, reduced consumption, not unavailability. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>The discussion you led us into has to do with >>>>>can/can't happen. >>>> >>>> >>>>Uh, no....please try to keep up. I was pointing out that if it does >>>>happen it won't matter a whit if we've built hundreds of nuclear plants >>>>or not, since we will not have the electric cars to make use of the >>>>increased supply of electricity. >>> >>> >>>In the US we have what can only be described as an overkill >>>in residential electrical services. The minimum permitted >>>these days is 100 Amps @ 240 volts. In fact, people are >>>being forced to upgrade to that minimum by their homeowners >>>insurance. >> >>This is a fairly small factor, since relatively little heating is done by >>fuel oil--something like 5% of US households, > > > I don't believe that. Gas lines aren't as common as electirc poles. He has no idea. There's no natural gas available where I live. Much of the country doesn't have it. My son uses a heat pump with resistive heat backup, and he lives in a densely populated city which has no natural gas. >>and much of that in older >>homes that can benefit from improved insulation, if the economic benefit is >>there. The rest is domestically supplied--either natural gas or already >>electric. Add to this the fact that much of the oil home heating will be >>taken up by natural gas, since it is much cheaper in most markets. And add >>to this the fact that it is in the summer, not the winter, that the electric >>grid is stretched to anywhere near its limit. > > > No, it's not. Ours is stretched in the winter too. If everybody > goes to electric heating, there will black outs during the winter. > > >>The need for more electric >>plants to supply the increase in electric home heating would be minimal. > > > Around here there oodles of oil delivery companies. So we must > be all that 5%..which, of course, is nonsense. Much of the northeast depends on heating oil. Levittown NY and similar densely populated regions are totally dependent on oil for heat, both space heating as well as domestic HW which is created using a coil immersed in the boiler. Those folks run their boiler all year round. >>>So rthe plain fact is we could easily and quickly switch >>>most free standing residences to electric heat in a big >>>hurry if the need arises. Manufacturing and distributing >>>electric baseboard or, even simpler, plenum style heating >>>elements, is trivial. Electric domestic water heaters >>>are simple devices. >> >>This is a completely negligible factor, since very little residential hot >>water comes from oil burners. It's already almost all domestically >>sourced--either electric or natural gas. > > > Now study your natural gas biz. There's a problem there, too. I use a petroleum product to heat my home, my hot water and cooking. It is called LPG. Most people in my region are using propane. My closest neighbor uses propane as backup heat source, relying primarily on wood for space heating (cut and split their own) but cooking and domestic hot water are electric. >>>Automobiles form part of our consumption. There are many >>>other uses, including significant industrial consumption. >> >>Much of that is raw materials for the petrochemical industry, which cannot >>be replaced by nuclear power. Very little industrial heating is done by >>fuel oil. Mostly it's natural gas, which is already a domestic supply. > > > Most of the industrial heating my Dad put in was oil, not gas. This > was pre-1970. But oil supplied better steam heat than gas...hmmm... > I don't why. Pre-1970 there were fewer anti-pollution regulations, allowing cheaper oil (higher sulphur content and bunker oil) to be burned. Where large amounts are burned, it becomes very cost effective. Such installations have scrubbers on them today.
From: Eeyore on 3 Nov 2006 13:38 jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > >> Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > >> >> "MooseFET" <kensmith(a)rahul.net> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >They seem to be doing better than the US with a lot less money for > >> >> >health care. > >> >> > >> >> Could it be the drug costs that make this difference? > >> > > >> >Why do so may US medical practicioners prescibe expensive drugs > >> > >> They don't. > > > >My advice is that they *do* ! > > > >In fact I know a chap in the USA whose wife's preferred drugs were so > >prohibitively expensive that they couldn't afford them and had to 'make do' > >withsomething cheaper. > > > >Maybe we have different ideas of 'expensive' ? In the UK an NHS course of > >drugscosts ?6.50 ( ~ $12.30 ). > > Is that your copayment? We call it a precription charge. It's a flat rate for any course of one single drug which might be from 7 days to say 3 months. So if your treatment needs 2 drugs you pay ?6.50 ea for them. > What do they really cost? I've no idea. Usually more but not always since the NHS makes extensive use of generics which they ( and the pharmacists ) can buy in bulk and get a good price on. > From what > I've read about UK social programs a lot of real costs are hidden > because a lot is subsidized. That's the whole point. If your drugs cost say ?200 you still only pay ?6.50. This means good health care is affordable for all regardless of income. The appointment with the doctor or consultant is free of course since they're employed by the NHS ( actually these days the local Primary Care Trust ). Graham
From: Eeyore on 3 Nov 2006 13:42 jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > > > >> You seem to think that a drug company has to stop making its > >> brand of drug once the patent protection expires. > > > >Of course not. > > > >Other companies can now copy it though. Check out India. > > Other countries are now making money on a US company's piece of > knowledge. Yet the US doesn't get any credit for that. Indians couldn't afford US prices. In fact quite a few Americans can't either which is why ppl like to buy them in Canada instead for example. Don't you think that's rather odd ? Why does the same drug cost less in Canada after it's left the USA ? > All > overhead used to develop and produce each item that is now > making money for another country never gets credited to the US > stats. I repeat. At US prices there wouldn't be any sales in India anyway so the point is moot. Graham
From: Eeyore on 3 Nov 2006 13:43
jmfbahciv(a)aol.com wrote: > "T Wake" <usenet.es7at(a)gishpuppy.com> wrote: > ><jmfbahciv(a)aol.com> wrote in message > >> Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >>>unsettled wrote: > >>> > >>>> Also compare the availability of goods and services in Europe > >>>> and other places in the world to ours. > >>> > >>>What !!!! > >>> > >>>Are you being funny ? > >> > >> No, he's not. There are a lot of Europeans who come to the US > >> to shop. > > > >Do you take this to imply there is a *shortage* of the goods and services in > >Europe? > > Yes. There is shortage of selection. Do continue. I can't wait to hear this one. Care to mention an area ( any one ) where we have a shortage of selection ? Graham |