Physics Group Splinters Over Global Warming Review
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From: I M on 4 Jan 2010 02:05 On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 16:38:20 -0600, Sam Wormley <swormley1(a)gmail.com> wrote: >On 1/3/10 4:29 PM, I M @ good guy wrote: >> On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 10:52:21 -0600, Marvin the Martian > >>> >>> Okay... I just gotta killfile Wormley for awhile. I debunked his silly >>> websites over and over, and he just ignores it. Now "global warming" >>> means cooler climate. >>> >>> I'm losing respect for Earthlings and general and I'm beginning to regard >>> Earthlings from the American midwest as brain damaged idiots no more >>> intelligent than the swine they raise. I gotta stop reading Wormley for >>> awhile. >> >> Now look, Marvin, I am from the midwest, and >> I know that GHGs are what cool the atmosphere, so >> please don't make generalized slurs. >> > > Marvin just needs to take a break. As for what role green house > gasses play in global climate and global climate change, we do > no agree. > > I will continue to try to get the physics right when posting > in this physics newsgroup. Well, I don't read or post in a physics newsgroup, although I did in the same groups as you 8 or 10 years ago, but can't find a message where you argued with me then. Marvin is a little excited, I feel the same way when I read some of the absolute BS written about Global Warming and the underlying physics of the atmosphere and thermal energy content of the oceans, land and atmosphere. You have the education to separate the BS from the facts, I don't know why you don't do that, even in grant supported literature discussions there should be thankful acceptance of the revelation of incorrect physics. I don't think anybody should be posting opinions about individuals involved in the exposed emails, if the authorities don't make proper investigations it could even get worse. What I really don't understand is the failure to admit that the major role of all GreenHouse Gases is to cool the atmosphere with the water cycle providing most of the self regulating mechanisms. I was amazed when Marvin said Mars has more CO2 than Earth, I didn't check yet, but if that is true, what can that mean to AGW? I think the warmest year I experienced was 1982 in Austin, not the highest temperatures, but the steady high 90s. The hottest two week stretch with much humidity was in 1964 in Pasadena when it reached 112 every day for two weeks, that forced me to give up sugar sweetened soft drinks while working. The 115 degrees in Las Vegas in the summer of 1963 was a breeze, humidity there then was still around one percent, and just walking provided enough air motion to cool the body, my grandmother's house had a swamp cooler on the roof that I cleaned the filter media in, it made quite a difference in the house, but later on A/C probably was needed as swamp coolers do not work well in higher humidity. I usually feel very uncomfortable when I have corrected a teacher about something, some really silly things can be perpetuated, like one physics teacher was teaching that a 3-4-5 triangle was a 30-60-90, he just did not check it until I opened my big mouth. I am really concerned that the added CO2 in the atmosphere could cause cooling world wide, even if the Arctic experiences spells of warming, ocean currents and prevailing winds can cause anomalous weather patterns if they change even slightly. I did get out of the house for an hour or so yesterday and today, it got up to 24 with sun late in the afternoon, that is still below the normal low for the date. We have no snow cover here, that has helped, but it may change this week, it doesn't look good at all, and any AGW hype is not appreciated.
From: Marvin the Martian on 5 Jan 2010 19:47 On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 02:05:52 -0500, I M @ good guy wrote: > I was amazed when Marvin said Mars > has more CO2 than Earth, I didn't check yet, but if that is true, what > can that mean to AGW? Mars has 0.6 to 1 KPa of CO2 atmosphere, and it is very cold. Earth has a 101 kPa atmosphere, of which 0.04% is CO2, for a partial pressure of 0.04 kPa. My planet is a frozen rock which frequency dips to "dry ice" temperature. According to the CO2 theory, 1) we should be a tropical paradise right now and 2) we Martians caused the CO2.
From: I M on 6 Jan 2010 02:14 On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:47:57 -0600, Marvin the Martian <marvin(a)ontomars.org> wrote: >On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 02:05:52 -0500, I M @ good guy wrote: > >> I was amazed when Marvin said Mars >> has more CO2 than Earth, I didn't check yet, but if that is true, what >> can that mean to AGW? > >Mars has 0.6 to 1 KPa of CO2 atmosphere, and it is very cold. > >Earth has a 101 kPa atmosphere, of which 0.04% is CO2, for a partial >pressure of 0.04 kPa. My planet is a frozen rock which frequency dips to >"dry ice" temperature. According to the CO2 theory, 1) we should be a >tropical paradise right now and 2) we Martians caused the CO2. Marvin here on Earth we consider volume, mass and density to be a measure of quantity, not pressure.
From: Marvin the Martian on 8 Jan 2010 18:25 On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 01:22:07 -0500, I M @ good guy wrote: > On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 15:26:41 -0600, Marvin the Martian > <marvin(a)ontomars.org> wrote: > >>On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:26:46 -0500, I M @ good guy wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 13:09:29 -0600, Sam Wormley <swormley1(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>On 1/2/10 11:00 AM, Marvin the Martian wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 08:53:18 -0600, Sam Wormley wrote: >>>>> >>>>> < one big post hoc fallacy snipped> >>>>> >>>>> You know, real scientist try NOT to make a post hoc fallacy. >>>>> >>>>> Columbus got the Indians to feed him and his crew by telling them >>>>> that if they didn't feed them, the gods would eat the moon. Columbus >>>>> knew from his ephemerids that there was going to be a lunar eclipse. >>>>> The Indians were totally fooled. "You're not feeding us, and the >>>>> moon is being eaten. Ergo, your not feeding us has caused the moon >>>>> to be eaten". Bad logic. Pity the Indians had never heard of logic. >>>> >>>> Columbus might have died earlier had it been overcast during that >>>> eclipse! >>>> >>>> >>>>> This is an example of what the AGWers are doing. Only since it's >>>>> pretty damned obvious that mean global temperature ISN'T increasing, >>>>> they now say that ANY CHANGE, up, down or sideways, is caused by >>>>> man. >>>>> >>>>> It is so damned stupid that it would be funny that anyone would even >>>>> utter such silliness, but people FALL for this foolishness. >>>> >>>> Marvin, I think you are blinded by your biases. You can no longer >>>> be objective and look at what the science is telling us. I want you >>>> to start taking global climate change seriously--not that we are >>>> going to be able to do much about it--but learn what is really >>>> taking place on this planet. >>> >>> >>> Oh, Geez, now you are assigning projects? >>> >>> Be careful, putting people in charge is >>> dangerous, they take the job seriously. >> >>For a stupid git, Wormley sure is smug. I think he's just a troll. > > > I don't think so, he fell for the AGW line, felt > a compulsion to spread the word, had not used any logic to evaluate the > gossip factor in GHG theory, but may be re-assessing the situation. > > Take it easy on the AGW believers, they really > feel distraught when they realize how bad they were snookered, the more > education a person has the more difficult it is to accept being wrong. > > But no matter what effect CO2 has on climate, > the increasing atmospheric CO2 concentration is a problem, although not > as big a problem as the finite supply of liquid fuels. > > Everybody, even the most nutty AGW nut > should be praying that added CO2 is not causing the present cold weather > that seems to be most of the Northern Hemisphere, it is not the coldest > by far, but the length of the cold snap could break all records and > cause severe financial hardship, my water/sewer bill will at least > double for the month, and my heating bill will not be lowered as I > thought. As Birdwell points out in his Hydroponic Greenhouse book, plants grow better with higher concentrations of CO2. So much so that many professional growers provide extra CO2 in their greenhouses. I think the paper you cited says that ACCORDING TO A AGW MODEL, that CO2 should cause cooling, not warming. Keep in mind that is according to a AGW model, and not anything akin to science.
From: Marvin the Martian on 9 Jan 2010 22:28
On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 02:14:32 -0500, I M @ good guy wrote: > On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:47:57 -0600, Marvin the Martian > <marvin(a)ontomars.org> wrote: > >>On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 02:05:52 -0500, I M @ good guy wrote: >> >>> I was amazed when Marvin said Mars >>> has more CO2 than Earth, I didn't check yet, but if that is true, what >>> can that mean to AGW? >> >>Mars has 0.6 to 1 KPa of CO2 atmosphere, and it is very cold. >> >>Earth has a 101 kPa atmosphere, of which 0.04% is CO2, for a partial >>pressure of 0.04 kPa. My planet is a frozen rock which frequency dips to >>"dry ice" temperature. According to the CO2 theory, 1) we should be a >>tropical paradise right now and 2) we Martians caused the CO2. > > > Marvin here on Earth we consider volume, > mass and density to be a measure of quantity, not pressure. The pressure at the surface is the weight of the gas above a unit area per unit area. So, a 0.04 kPa CO2 pressure on earth means that the mass of the gas is 0.04 kPa = 40 N/m^2 = (mass of gas per unit area) * 9.8 m/ s^2 implies that (mass of gas per unit area) =~ 4 kg/m^2. While on Mars, it would be 1000 N/m^2 = (mass of gas per unit area) * 3.7 m/s^2 implies that the mass of gas per unit area is 270 kg/m^2 So we Martians have much more CO2 than Earth does, but we're freezing our green asses off. We would like to believe CO2 causes global warming, but it just isn't so. Nothing like having a buxom, green skinned, red haired Martian lass to keep you warm on Mars. |