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From: Lew Pitcher on 29 Nov 2009 10:42 On November 29, 2009 08:05, in alt.os.linux.slackware, Dario Niedermann (M8R-cthw2f(a)spamherelots.com) wrote: > Lew Pitcher <lpitcher(a)teksavvy.com> wrote: > >> Vi is one of those Unixisms that Slackware maintains. > > As does the Single UNIX Specification. > > If it doesn't come with vi, it's not Unix. Or Unix-like. Agreed. And that's one of the best differences between Slackware and most of the other Linux distributions: Slackware tends to stick closer to the SUS and the configuration of "real" Unix systems than the other distros do. This makes it easier (at the human level) to plug a Slackware into an existing Unix shop than it does almost any other distro. -- Lew Pitcher Master Codewright & JOAT-in-training | Registered Linux User #112576 Me: http://pitcher.digitalfreehold.ca/ | Just Linux: http://justlinux.ca/ ---------- Slackware - Because I know what I'm doing. ------
From: Jim Diamond on 29 Nov 2009 11:04 On 2009-11-28 at 07:24 AST, Mike Jones <Not(a)Arizona.Bay> wrote: > I think what I'm discovering here is that there is a phenomena something > like a kind of selective application dislexia, and I (and a few others) > have it regarding Vi. I'm sort of curious. Can you tell me what it is that you find so difficult about vi? It is (1) the fact that there are two modes, (2) the fact that there are (keyboard) commands to delete/change existing text, rather than using the mouse to do this, (3) the fact that the commands are different than in other programs you are familiar with, (4) something else (what)? Just for the record, I'm not a vi fanatic, so please don't feel I am being critical of your difficulties, but I am genuinely interested in what they are. Thanks. Jim
From: Henrik Carlqvist on 29 Nov 2009 14:22 Jim Diamond <Jim.Diamond(a)nospam.AcadiaU.ca> wrote: > I'm sort of curious. Can you tell me what it is that you find so > difficult about vi? Maybe this question was only ment for the OP, if so feel free to ignore the contents of this post. If you are curios about what more than one people find difficult it might still have some value. I know how to use vi for basic editing but use emacs for my everyday work not only as a sysadmin, but mostly as a programmer. > (3) the fact that the commands are different than in other programs > you are familiar with, Yes, I think this is the major problem. This problem is not only about learning the keys of yet another program. When you are used to some key combinations those keys usually get pressed before you even have taken your time to think what those keys will do in your current program. Some examples: When someone places me in a Microsoft application like Word and I quickly press ctrl-x, ctrl-s to save the document I have deleted the marked section of the text before the document was saved. In Word I should instead have pressed only ctrl-s to save the document. In emacs I am used to do quick searces by pressing ctrl-s. Sometimes I find terminal windows on my desktop which seems completely dead. After some time I usually realize that I will have to press ctrl-q to get them back to life after I have pressed ctrl-s by mistake. This is one of my favorite examples: Many years ago we had a batch file running on a DOS machine (yes MS-DOS, not MS-windows) which printed some text on screen. The purpose of this batch file was to continously run make (or maybe it was nmake) then sleep some second and run make again. With this machine doing that job we always had an up to date binary whenever someone saved a new version of a source code. One morning our printer had a really big bunch of papers with the output of make printed on them. Before the batch file was started one of my coworkers had used that DOS command prompt for something else. While reading on the screen he wanted to scroll up and pressed ctrl-p like in emacs to scroll up one line, however in DOS ctrl-p means "print everything sent to stdout to printer". I have more examples wher I and others have pressed key kombinations out of old habit where those keys gave unwanted results. regards Henrik -- The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is: hc3(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers: root(a)localhost postmaster(a)localhost
From: Helmut Hullen on 29 Nov 2009 14:45 Hallo, Henrik, Du meintest am 29.11.09: >> (3) the fact that the commands are different than in other programs >> you are familiar with, > Yes, I think this is the major problem. This problem is not only > about learning the keys of yet another program. When you are used to > some key combinations those keys usually get pressed before you even > have taken your time to think what those keys will do in your current > program. > Some examples: > When someone places me in a Microsoft application like Word and I > quickly press ctrl-x, ctrl-s to save the document I have deleted the > marked section of the text before the document was saved. In Word I > should instead have pressed only ctrl-s to save the document. [...] And then there is "ctrl-c" in many Microsoft programs which is the shortcut for "copy" ... Viele Gruesse Helmut "Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
From: Lew Pitcher on 29 Nov 2009 14:54
On November 29, 2009 14:45, in alt.os.linux.slackware, Helmut Hullen (helmut(a)hullen.de) wrote: > Hallo, Henrik, > > Du meintest am 29.11.09: > >>> (3) the fact that the commands are different than in other programs >>> you are familiar with, > >> Yes, I think this is the major problem. This problem is not only >> about learning the keys of yet another program. When you are used to >> some key combinations those keys usually get pressed before you even >> have taken your time to think what those keys will do in your current >> program. > >> Some examples: > >> When someone places me in a Microsoft application like Word and I >> quickly press ctrl-x, ctrl-s to save the document I have deleted the >> marked section of the text before the document was saved. In Word I >> should instead have pressed only ctrl-s to save the document. > > [...] > And then there is "ctrl-c" in many Microsoft programs which is the > shortcut for "copy" ... and <shift><Insert> for Paste Both of which, IIRC, came from Windows 3, prior to MS trying to standardize and rationalize their keyboard editing controls for Windows -- Lew Pitcher Master Codewright & JOAT-in-training | Registered Linux User #112576 Me: http://pitcher.digitalfreehold.ca/ | Just Linux: http://justlinux.ca/ ---------- Slackware - Because I know what I'm doing. ------ |