Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
|
From: Ben Dolan on 11 Jul 2008 10:15 Antares 531 <gordonlrDELETE(a)swbell.net> wrote: > >> When I lived in Florida a few years back, I arrived home one evening > >> just after sundown and saw a very large alligator slithering across > >> our front lawn. I was afraid to get close to the beast but after it > >> began moving away I parked the car and went inside to tell my wife > >> about this alligator. > >> > >> We both came back out to look at the beast but it was gone and we > >> could find no trace of it. I had ample "evidence" that an alligator > >> had slithered across our front lawn, but I could not transfer this > >> evidence. My wife could either reject my claim or accept it on faith. > >> > > > >As you said, a claim, but not evidence. > > > There was evidence for me, but no transferable evidence. My point was > that there can be, and often is evidence that isn't transferable. But there's plenty of evidence that alligators live in Florida, isn't there? So your claim is completely reasonable based on considerable supporting evidence. If your claim was that the baby Jesus had slithered across your front lawn, then that would be a different matter altogether, now wouldn't it? Believing you saw an alligator on your lawn isn't purely a matter of faith, but believing you saw Jesus would be (and Florida being a hotbed of religulous nutcases, I'm sure someone has made such a claim at some point.) Do you understand the difference? Give it a rest, Gordon, we've heard this particular line of argument countless times before. You're not covering any new ground, and you still haven't addressed the basic issue: there is no evidence for the existence of supernatural gods of any sort--reptilian or otherwise. "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son, that whosoever would believe in Him would believe any bullshit you threw at them..."
From: Steve O on 11 Jul 2008 11:03 <hhyapster(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:423233e8-bce0-4c74-a4e4-a131f86ed4be(a)m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > On Jul 11, 7:04 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >> On Jul 9, 7:31 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> > news:db1c5671-b400-4028-8821- >> >> > >> IME, children are naturally credulous. �We pick explanations that >> > >> fit the >> > >> available facts. �If our environment acts as if Santa Claus is real >> > >> and >> > >> we >> > >> have no evidence to doubt that assertion, we believe.- Hide quoted >> > >> text - >> >> > >> - Show quoted text - >> >> > > Or, like Steve O's little boy, if the parents say there is no God, >> > > they try to believe what they hear their parents say. >> > > Robert B. Winn >> >> > You obviously weren't listening. >> > I haven't told him there is no God. >> > I'm sure, like his sister, he can make his own mind up later on that. >> > I just hope I can equip him with the critical thinking skills required >> > to >> > come to that decision. >> >> > -- >> > Steve O >> >> So you are saying that you son does not know you are an atheist. >> That is certainly very open minded. >> Robert B. Winn You just don't listen. My son is two years old- he doesn't know what an atheist is. His sister who is 9, understands, and considers herself to be an atheist. -- Steve O a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter) B.A.A.W.A. Convicted by Earthquack Exempt from purgatory by papal indulgence
From: Alex W. on 11 Jul 2008 12:27 "Steve O" <nospamhere(a)thanks.com> wrote in message news:6dpb2pF3pfehU1(a)mid.individual.net... > > > <hhyapster(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > news:423233e8-bce0-4c74-a4e4-a131f86ed4be(a)m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >> On Jul 11, 7:04 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >>> On Jul 9, 7:31 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>> > news:db1c5671-b400-4028-8821- >>> >>> > >> IME, children are naturally credulous. ?We pick explanations that >>> > >> fit the >>> > >> available facts. ?If our environment acts as if Santa Claus is real >>> > >> and >>> > >> we >>> > >> have no evidence to doubt that assertion, we believe.- Hide quoted >>> > >> text - >>> >>> > >> - Show quoted text - >>> >>> > > Or, like Steve O's little boy, if the parents say there is no God, >>> > > they try to believe what they hear their parents say. >>> > > Robert B. Winn >>> >>> > You obviously weren't listening. >>> > I haven't told him there is no God. >>> > I'm sure, like his sister, he can make his own mind up later on that. >>> > I just hope I can equip him with the critical thinking skills required >>> > to >>> > come to that decision. >>> >>> > -- >>> > Steve O >>> >>> So you are saying that you son does not know you are an atheist. >>> That is certainly very open minded. >>> Robert B. Winn > > You just don't listen. > My son is two years old- he doesn't know what an atheist is. > His sister who is 9, understands, and considers herself to be an atheist. How horrible for you.. I can see it now -- sprog hits puberty and teenage rebel phase, refuses to wear makeup, won't shag pimply boyfriend or get a tattoo, and declares her firm intention to enter a convent over Friday fish....
From: rbwinn on 11 Jul 2008 13:04 On Jul 11, 8:03 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > <hhyaps...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:423233e8-bce0-4c74-a4e4-a131f86ed4be(a)m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 7:04 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >> On Jul 9, 7:31 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > > >> > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >> > news:db1c5671-b400-4028-8821- > > >> > >> IME, children are naturally credulous. �We pick explanations that > >> > >> fit the > >> > >> available facts. �If our environment acts as if Santa Claus is real > >> > >> and > >> > >> we > >> > >> have no evidence to doubt that assertion, we believe.- Hide quoted > >> > >> text - > > >> > >> - Show quoted text - > > >> > > Or, like Steve O's little boy, if the parents say there is no God, > >> > > they try to believe what they hear their parents say. > >> > > Robert B. Winn > > >> > You obviously weren't listening. > >> > I haven't told him there is no God. > >> > I'm sure, like his sister, he can make his own mind up later on that.. > >> > I just hope I can equip him with the critical thinking skills required > >> > to > >> > come to that decision. > > >> > -- > >> > Steve O > > >> So you are saying that you son does not know you are an atheist. > >> That is certainly very open minded. > >> Robert B. Winn > > You just don't listen. > My son is two years old- he doesn't know what an atheist is. > His sister who is 9, understands, and considers herself to be an atheist. > > -- > Steve O > a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter) > B.A.A.W.A. > Convicted by Earthquack > Exempt from purgatory by papal indulgence- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Your two year old child is trying to be like you. Didn't you say that you were an atheist? Robert B. Winn
From: Antares 531 on 11 Jul 2008 14:27
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:15:08 -0700, ben_dolan_III(a)reet.com (Ben Dolan) wrote: >Antares 531 <gordonlrDELETE(a)swbell.net> wrote: > >> >> When I lived in Florida a few years back, I arrived home one evening >> >> just after sundown and saw a very large alligator slithering across >> >> our front lawn. I was afraid to get close to the beast but after it >> >> began moving away I parked the car and went inside to tell my wife >> >> about this alligator. >> >> >> >> We both came back out to look at the beast but it was gone and we >> >> could find no trace of it. I had ample "evidence" that an alligator >> >> had slithered across our front lawn, but I could not transfer this >> >> evidence. My wife could either reject my claim or accept it on faith. >> >> >> > >> >As you said, a claim, but not evidence. >> > >> There was evidence for me, but no transferable evidence. My point was >> that there can be, and often is evidence that isn't transferable. > >But there's plenty of evidence that alligators live in Florida, isn't >there? So your claim is completely reasonable based on considerable >supporting evidence. If your claim was that the baby Jesus had slithered >across your front lawn, then that would be a different matter >altogether, now wouldn't it? Believing you saw an alligator on your >lawn isn't purely a matter of faith, but believing you saw Jesus would >be (and Florida being a hotbed of religulous nutcases, I'm sure someone >has made such a claim at some point.) Do you understand the difference? > >Give it a rest, Gordon, we've heard this particular line of argument >countless times before. You're not covering any new ground, and you >still haven't addressed the basic issue: there is no evidence for the >existence of supernatural gods of any sort--reptilian or otherwise. > > >"For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son, that >whosoever would believe in Him would believe any bullshit you threw at >them..." > This was given as merely an illustrative example, showing that not all evidence is transferable. There never was a question as to whether or not alligators exist in Florida. That has already been objectively proven, and every rational minded person accepts it as truth. The issue was, did an alligator cross our front lawn? There was ample evidence supplied to me. I watched the beast waddle from our driveway, across the front lawn then into the street, and I wasn't drunk or high on drugs. I was just coming home from work. But, that evidence supplied to me was not transferable to my wife or to my neighbors. I really don't think anyone doubted me, but, none the less, my statement could not be objectively proven because the evidence was not transferable. Gordon |