Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Alex W. on 11 Jul 2008 19:20 "Antares 531" <gordonlrDELETE(a)swbell.net> wrote in message news:e0pf749gtttsrk8eso4lqjttd2u7gumuur(a)4ax.com... > On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:17:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a(a)b.c> > wrote: > >>Antares 531 wrote: >>> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:15:08 -0700, ben_dolan_III(a)reet.com (Ben Dolan) >>> wrote: > (snip) >>>> >>> Ben, there is an ABUNDANCE of evidence that God exists, >> >>Which God though? >> > The One whose prophecies are repeatedly and accurately fulfilled. > > http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/prophecy.shtml > That's rubbish. It's like using advertising blurbs to prove the objective superiority of your product. There is nothing easier than to retrofit a text to bring it into accord with whatever agenda you wish to pursue.
From: Smiler on 11 Jul 2008 20:00 "Antares 531" <gordonlrDELETE(a)swbell.net> wrote in message news:a2af74t4f3e1lsfcv07k7fu8khq1vqqa0d(a)4ax.com... > On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:15:08 -0700, ben_dolan_III(a)reet.com (Ben Dolan) > wrote: > >>Antares 531 <gordonlrDELETE(a)swbell.net> wrote: >> >>> >> When I lived in Florida a few years back, I arrived home one evening >>> >> just after sundown and saw a very large alligator slithering across >>> >> our front lawn. I was afraid to get close to the beast but after it >>> >> began moving away I parked the car and went inside to tell my wife >>> >> about this alligator. >>> >> >>> >> We both came back out to look at the beast but it was gone and we >>> >> could find no trace of it. I had ample "evidence" that an alligator >>> >> had slithered across our front lawn, but I could not transfer this >>> >> evidence. My wife could either reject my claim or accept it on faith. >>> >> >>> > >>> >As you said, a claim, but not evidence. >>> > >>> There was evidence for me, but no transferable evidence. My point was >>> that there can be, and often is evidence that isn't transferable. >> >>But there's plenty of evidence that alligators live in Florida, isn't >>there? So your claim is completely reasonable based on considerable >>supporting evidence. If your claim was that the baby Jesus had slithered >>across your front lawn, then that would be a different matter >>altogether, now wouldn't it? Believing you saw an alligator on your >>lawn isn't purely a matter of faith, but believing you saw Jesus would >>be (and Florida being a hotbed of religulous nutcases, I'm sure someone >>has made such a claim at some point.) Do you understand the difference? >> >>Give it a rest, Gordon, we've heard this particular line of argument >>countless times before. You're not covering any new ground, and you >>still haven't addressed the basic issue: there is no evidence for the >>existence of supernatural gods of any sort--reptilian or otherwise. >> > Ben, there is an ABUNDANCE of evidence that God exists, but this > evidence is not transferable between human minds. If you and other > atheists have your minds closed against God's existence, it will NEVER > be possible for anyone to overwhelm you and force you to change your > mind. To accept or to reject God is a fully volitional choice that you > and all of us have. If it were possible to overwhelm an atheist's mind > on this, they would NOT have a volitional choice at all. > What is it with you morons and choice? Did you CHOSE not to believe in Zeus? Did you CHOSE not to belive in Leprechauns? Did you CHOSE not to believe in Ra? Did you CHOSE not to believe in Thor? Did you CHOSE not to believe there are faires at the bottom of your garden? No. You came to the conclusion that all the above are fiction. Exactly as I came to the conclusion that your gods are fiction. No choice was possible, given the total lack of evidence for any of your gods. > As I've said in previous posts, I'm not trying to re-direct you or > overwhelm you with my beliefs on these matters. I'm posting merely for > the benefit of those who are still searching for information, and who > might want to review the Christian perspective on these matters. And you do this in an athiest newsgroup? Why would atheists search for information about a fictional, impossible, unprovable being? What would you think of someone who came to a xian newsgroup for the benefit of those who are still searching for information on, say, Vishna and who might want to review the Hindu perspective on these matters? Rude? Ignorant? Presumptious? Stupid? Obnoxious? All of these things? > > It is a lot easier to believe that an intelligent designer > orchestrated the big bang and the formation of the multiverse, then > created life on at least this one little insignificant planet, than it > is to conclude that it was all a matter of chance. Maybe for morons like you, but those of us that live in the real world know better. > > One little channel of thought on this subject...genetic mutations. In > most cases any significant chain of mutations had to progress through > MANY very well orchestrated steps, involving many totally separate DNA > mutations, before any tangible Darwinian natural selection benefits > could have guided the further refinement. Why? Just being able to run at 1MPH faster than your predator is a natural selection advantage. > > Leaving this to chance would surely have resulted in a complete > failure of the process, or even the extinction of the life forms > involved. Why? Not all the species mutate, only some individuals. If the mutation(s) were not successful, only the mutated individuals would die out. The remainder would carry on as before. > Yet not just one, but millions of such chain-of-events > evolutionary processes went to a very fine state of development in a > very short period of time, in terms of the ordinary evolutionary > processes time frame. Your evidence for this is? > > Sure, evolution happens. Hereford cows and Angus cows are certainly > different. But this micro evolution process doesn't spontaneously > accomplish things like eyes in almost every advanced life form. The 'Irreducable Complexity' argument has been refuted many times. Try talk.origins for an explanation. > > Some form of cosmic intelligence (God) was in control through the > critical developmental phase of all we can evaluate, objectively. Your evidence for this is? > It > didn't just happen, spontaneously. Your personal incredulity is not evidence. > > I'll agree, one has to be careful how one tries to conceptualize God. > God is spirit, not an oversized old man with a white beard, sitting on > a majestic throne somewhere off in deep space. That concept was > acceptable and favorable to those ancient people who knew nothing > about the scientific order of the multiverse. But, most of us modern > hominids have progressed beyond this, and now need an understanding of > God that is more congruent with our scientific knowledge. It isn't > that God doesn't exist, or no longer exists. It is merely that those > old sources of information on God are not easy to reconcile with our > current level of scientific knowledge. > > God is spirit Define 'Spirit' > and we must worship Him is spirit. Who says we MUST? > That is to say, God > exists as a cosmic intelligence that permeates the entire multiverse, > and can interact across the entirety of the multiverse, instantly. > Your evidence for this is? <snip remainder of pseudo-scientific bullshit> Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279
From: Antares 531 on 11 Jul 2008 20:01 On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:20:31 -0500, Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:54:38 -0500, Antares 531 ><gordonlrDELETE(a)swbell.net> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:17:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a(a)b.c> >>wrote: >> >>>Antares 531 wrote: >>>> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:15:08 -0700, ben_dolan_III(a)reet.com (Ben Dolan) >>>> wrote: >>(snip) >>>>> >>>> Ben, there is an ABUNDANCE of evidence that God exists, >>> >>>Which God though? >>> >>The One whose prophecies are repeatedly and accurately fulfilled. >> >>http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/prophecy.shtml > >God made no prophecies. > Indeed He did! God spoke to us through the prophets. Gordon
From: Antares 531 on 11 Jul 2008 20:03 On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:20:39 +0100, "Alex W." <ingilt(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >"Antares 531" <gordonlrDELETE(a)swbell.net> wrote in message >news:e0pf749gtttsrk8eso4lqjttd2u7gumuur(a)4ax.com... >> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:17:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <a(a)b.c> >> wrote: >> >>>Antares 531 wrote: >>>> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:15:08 -0700, ben_dolan_III(a)reet.com (Ben Dolan) >>>> wrote: >> (snip) >>>>> >>>> Ben, there is an ABUNDANCE of evidence that God exists, >>> >>>Which God though? >>> >> The One whose prophecies are repeatedly and accurately fulfilled. >> >> http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/prophecy.shtml >> > >That's rubbish. >It's like using advertising blurbs to prove the objective superiority of >your product. > >There is nothing easier than to retrofit a text to bring it into accord with >whatever agenda you wish to pursue. > Accept or reject as you choose. It is a fully volitional choice. Gordon
From: Smiler on 11 Jul 2008 20:04
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:6ebcae55-3c20-4ea3-960e-25f802c31860(a)s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... On Jul 10, 8:51?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:1b629e70-db18-4208-a3da-4381dcebabb4(a)p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > On Jul 8, 8:45?pm, ben_dolan_...(a)reet.com (Ben Dolan) wrote: > > > rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > There were some atheists who said Harry Potter went on the train from > > > London to wizard's school. > > > And once again, child, you have confused fiction with reality... > > Harry Potter is fiction. ?The woman who wrote the books said it was > fiction. ?I know this may come as a shock to atheists. > =================================== > > The bible is also fiction. We don't even know who wrote it. > I know this may come as a shock to christians. > Get over it. > No, Smiler, the Bible tells about the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel. Didn't we discuss this before. ================================ And the Harry Potter books tell us about Kings Cross station and London. Both the Harry Potter books and the bible are fiction. Get over it. Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2275 |