Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Ben Dolan on 14 Jul 2008 11:45 rbwinn <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote: > I do not have any children. I am not married. Now there's a surprise...
From: The Loan Arranger on 14 Jul 2008 11:53 Ben Dolan wrote: > rbwinn <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote: > >> I do not have any children. I am not married. > > Now there's a surprise... Don't be rotten to the poor mite. He's still trying to tell shaving rash from zits. TLA
From: Alex W. on 14 Jul 2008 13:29 "Antares 531" <gordonlrDELETE(a)swbell.net> wrote in message news:pajm74l4b646olf5e2n7vnm1nnprlb8nlk(a)4ax.com... > God does indeed have infinite power and wisdom. He could handle this > any way he chose to do. He chose to let us live as mortals and learn, > hands-on, about sin and rebellion. The intention is to let us learn > enough to assure God that we won't try to go back and explore it any > further, once we've been granted immortality and absolute sovereignty. > God is presently (by our temporal reference frame) in the process of > separating good from evil. Those who reject God and are not willing to > be with Him throughout eternity will be moved, along with all other > aspects of existence that are not good. This will then be separated > from God's domain, irreversibly. You presume that good and evil are only defined through their relationship to a belief in god. IOW, you claim that a non-believer's good works do not count, are meaningless. That is unacceptable, both in itself and if one believes in a god of perfect love.
From: Antares 531 on 14 Jul 2008 14:19 On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:29:55 +0100, "Alex W." <ingilt(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >"Antares 531" <gordonlrDELETE(a)swbell.net> wrote in message >news:pajm74l4b646olf5e2n7vnm1nnprlb8nlk(a)4ax.com... > > >> God does indeed have infinite power and wisdom. He could handle this >> any way he chose to do. He chose to let us live as mortals and learn, >> hands-on, about sin and rebellion. The intention is to let us learn >> enough to assure God that we won't try to go back and explore it any >> further, once we've been granted immortality and absolute sovereignty. >> God is presently (by our temporal reference frame) in the process of >> separating good from evil. Those who reject God and are not willing to >> be with Him throughout eternity will be moved, along with all other >> aspects of existence that are not good. This will then be separated >> from God's domain, irreversibly. > >You presume that good and evil are only defined through their relationship >to a belief in god. IOW, you claim that a non-believer's good works do not >count, are meaningless. That is unacceptable, both in itself and if one >believes in a god of perfect love. > Alex, I'm sincerely sorry if you've gotten this impression from what I've posted. To clarify this a bit, let me say that "good" is defined as that which benefits everyone involved and does no harm to anyone. "Evil" is defined as that which may benefit the perpetrator, or at least seem to benefit the perpetrator for the time being, but in the final analysis it is harmful to others, and maybe even to the perpetrator. Atheists and those who believe in God but decline to align with Him can, and do indeed do good things. But, their choice to remain apart from God precludes their being granted immortality in God's domain. As to what happens to this group of people, the Bible indicates that they will stand before God in judgment and the outcome of that judgment is not clearly specified. One interpretation, taken from the passages that state that God is omnipotent and God is not willing that any should perish, indicates that some, or perhaps all of these people will be saved. If this is so, it seems that they may be rewarded for their good works. We are rewarded according to our works. "Salvation is by faith and faith alone, lest anyone should boast," but "when the Lord returns in all the glory of the Father, He will bring His rewards with Him and all will be rewarded according to their works." There will be a social gradient in Heaven. "Some who are least here on earth will be great in Heaven and some who are great here on earth will be least in Heaven." This obviously will be determined by their rewards for their works done during this mortal phase of their existence. Those who remain adamantly apart from God at the last judgment will be among those that are in the domain that is to be eternally separated from God and all that is good. The risk I perceive here is that an anti-God mind-set that has endured throughout one's life may be hard to give up, and there may be those who stubbornly refuse to do so, at the last judgment. Gordon
From: pbamvv on 14 Jul 2008 16:27
On 14 jul, 00:51, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > On Jul 13, 10:12 am, "pba...(a)worldonline.nl" <pba...(a)worldonline.nl> > wrote: > > > > > > > On 13 jul, 16:22, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > On Jul 13, 12:10 am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > > On Jul 12, 7:29�am, Stan-O <bndsna...(a)aol.com> wrote: > > > > >> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:21:44 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >>>>> You atheists seem to have a lot of trouble with the meanings of > > > > >>>>> words. ?There was another atheist who seemed to believe that adult and > > > > >>>>> adulterer meant the same thing. > > > > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > > > > >>>> ...which is an old joke that you obviously didn't get. > > > > >>> It is a very foolish mistake. �Although the two words look and sound > > > > >>> similar, they mean very different things. > > > > >>> Robert B. Winn > > > > >> I'd explain the meaning of "a play on words", but it would be like > > > > >> pouring water on a rock and expecting it to sink in... > > > > > > With atheists, it is not a play on words.  They really believe that > > > > > adulterers are the most mature adults. > > > > > Atheists don't believe anything. > > > > > More lies from the Prince of Lies. > > > > > Its amazing how much ore of an atheist I want to be, listening to you. > > > > Well, there you have it.  Atheists don't believe anything, they don't > > > do anything, and they don't think anything.  It does not sound very > > > exciting to me, but maybe it does to an atheist. > > > Robert B. Winn- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven - > > > > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven - > > > Well. Atheist are not lying their butt off like you do. > > Most of them believe in natural explanations, > > most of them have a job, > > and many of them are intelligent enough not to make as silly a claim > > as to say someone else doesn't think anything. > > > Your statement would be truth though if it was made about dead people. > > But if all dead people are atheists, what would that mean for heaven > > and hell? > > > Think about it! > > I am sure you have enough brains to understand, > > I only doubt whether you will use them on this issue or perfer to keep > > making silly statements > > > Peter van Velzen > > Thank you for your analysis, Peter.  I was merely expanding on a > statement from an atheist to show where it was leading:  Atheists do > not believe anything. > Robert B. Winn- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven - > > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven - The statement should probably be "atheists do not believe in anything supernatural" On the other hand one should not assume atheists have any specific believes in common, though they certainly all lack believe in a diety. Thanks for explaining, this thread has become to long to oversee the whole. PS The answer to the subject line is "Only if he wants to be beliieved in and even then for most people it is not nescessary". :-) Peter van Velzen July 2008 Amstelveen The Netherlands |