Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al) on 31 Jul 2008 21:11 On Aug 1, 6:19 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > On Jul 30, 10:32 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > > > <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > On Jul 31, 2:57 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > On Jul 30, 6:07 pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:57:19 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > > > > rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in > > > > <4937d184-9c40-4146-a3bb-b72b0333d...(a)z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>: > > > > > >On Jul 30, 3:43?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > >> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:46:16 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > > > > >> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in > > > > >> <5756c0f4-924c-42b6-b121-8d1294e14...(a)m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>: > > > > > >> >On Jul 22, 4:36?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > >> >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:27:01 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > > >> >> wrote in alt.atheism: > > > > > >> >> >On Jul 21, 6:51?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:58:47 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > > >> >> >> wrote in alt.atheism: > > > > > >> >> >> >On Jul 21, 5:15?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > >> >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:27:20 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > > >> >> >> >> wrote in alt.atheism: > > > > > >> >> >> >> >On Jul 20, 4:53?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:57:06 -0700, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> > > > > >> >> >> >> >> wrote in alt.atheism: > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >rbwinn wrote: > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jul 20, 10:18 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> ... > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >>> So, Jesus didn't say it. > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> Paul said it. ?He was one of the twelve apostles. > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >So, Jesus didn't say it. > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> And, as we all know, Paul was not one of the Twelve. > > > > > >> >> >> >> >Well, if you doubt that Paul was one of the twelve, why don't you wait > > > > >> >> >> >> >until after you are resurrected and ask Paul if he was one of the > > > > >> >> >> >> >twelve? > > > > > >> >> >> >> You are really ignorant about the Bible. No wonder you insist on making > > > > >> >> >> >> a fool of yourself. > > > > > >> >> >> >> Clue. Even Paul tells us he wasn't one of the Twelve. > > > > > >> >> >> >> If there were a God, He would strike you down for being such a bad > > > > >> >> >> >> example.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text - > > > > > >> >> >> >The book of Acts says Paul was ordained an apostle, Paul says he is an > > > > >> >> >> >apostle. ?Paul was an apostle, regardless of how many atheists of > > > > >> >> >> >today say he was not. > > > > > >> >> >> Once again, you choose to lie rather than admit your error. Nowhere in > > > > >> >> >> the entire Bible does it say that Paul was one of the Twelve. That was a > > > > >> >> >> claim you made up that was not true. > > > > > >> >> >> Keep lying. Prove to us how much of a fake you are.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > >> >> >> - Show quoted text - > > > > > >> >> >Acts 14:14 ?Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they > > > > >> >> >rent their clothes, and ran in among the people crying out. > > > > > >> >> So, as you can see, apostle does not mean 'one of the Twelve'. > > > > > >> >> Please, learn the myths you are trying to sell us. Your god would be > > > > >> >> embarrassed by your ignorance if he existed.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > >> >> - Show quoted text - > > > > > >> >Well, yes it does mean ?one of the Twelve. > > > > > >> Then you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Go waste some > > > > >> time reading the Gospels, Acts and letters to find out that _no one_ > > > > >> thought that Paul was one of the Twelve.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > >Well, Paul thought he was. I don't think he would have gone around > > > > >lying about it. > > > > > You are lying about what Paul said. He never claimed to be one of the > > > > Twelve.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > He said he was an apostle. He would not have said that if he had not > > > been ordained. > > > Robert B. Winn > > > I am an apostle. > > > Al- Hide quoted text - > > So who ordained you an apostle? > Robert B. Winn Me, just then. Much more direct evidence now, that I am an apostle than you have for these other characters. Al
From: DanielSan on 31 Jul 2008 21:21 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 31, 5:52�am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 30, 10:15 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 30, 6:14 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: >>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:9dcddedb-bce6-457f-b0c5-d9a6d2bb6bd7(a)m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> On Jul 22, 10:04?am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:8ab589a3-2731-4a92-a41e-d6870a4e6f4b(a)k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 10:08 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:efa8da13-56b6-4386-bfe5-c571b689a669(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>>>>> God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. >>>>>>>>>>> You have no evidence at all about God.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible? >>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>> You could, but it would be much better if you could provide some >>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> God as well. >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Steve O >>>>>>>> God sent His Only Begotten Son, Steve. ?If that was not enough for >>>>>>>> you, nothing I could do or say is going to convince you of anything. >>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>> Got any evidence that Jesus was the son of God? >>>>>>> Please don't say, "the Bible" - that isn't evidence of anything at all, >>>>>>> it's >>>>>>> just an old, old story. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Steve O >>>>>> Well, actually the Bible is evidence of Hezekiah's tunnel. Three >>>>>> different books of the Old Testament describe the construction of >>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel. >>>>>> ================================ >>>>>> Several of the Harry Potter books mention Kings Cross station. >>>>>> Does that make the Harry Potter stories true? >>>>>> Smiler, >>>>> Why don't you spend some more time studying it, Smiler, and decide for >>>>> yourself? I know that atheists are a little lacking in self- >>>>> confidence, but I think you could decide this question for yourself. >>>> I've studied Hezekiah's Tunnel since you brought it up. I still fail to >>>> see what its existence has to do with the truthfulness of the Bible. >>>> -- >>>> ****************************************************** >>>> * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * >>> Well, first you would have to make a decision about Hezekiah's >>> tunnel. �Does the tunnel really exist or is it just a hoax the way one >>> atheist claimed? � >> Which atheist? �Provide a quote. >> >>> Then if you decide it exists, how does that relate >>> to the description of its construction in the Old Testament? �Was the >>> tunnel seen today the tunnel described in the Old Testament, or is it >>> some other tunnel the way atheists continue to say in this newsgroup? >> Which atheists? �Provide quotes. >> >>> I know this is difficult, but it really is possible for an atheist to >>> make a decision about this. >>> The verses of the Bible that describe the construction of Hezekiah's >>> tunnel are either true, or they are false. �So far, having said that >>> the Bible is only myth, atheists are not willing to admit that there >>> are verses describing the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel that are >>> obviously true. >> How about this mindblower: >> >> Hezekiah's Tunnel exists. �The Bible talks about it. �The Bible is >> true...on this fact only...but has nothing to do with the truthfulness >> of the Bible. >> >> Look at every fiction story ever written. �A great majority of them >> write about the Earth. �An even greater majority talk about humans. >> >> Does that mean that the book itself is now nonfiction since it describe >> the Earth exactly how we see it today and how humans are? >> > > Well, we have made progress to a point, that an atheist has admitted > that the Biblical account of the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel is > true. First of all, not all fiction books describe the construction > of something that can be observed. And that's irrelevant. > But your premise is wrong. Just because you can find a fiction book > that describes something that can be seen does not prove that all > books that describe something that can be seen are fiction. Doesn't prove they're nonfiction, either. You're starting to get it. Just because a book talks about the construction of something is irrelevant to the veracity of the book. > The > furthest you can go would be to say that the book that describes > something that can be seen could be fiction or non-fiction, but you > cannot say that you have proven it to be fiction. So you would have > to find something else in the book that you claim is fiction, not > Hezekiah's tunnel, which has been proven to be non-fiction. I hope > this will help you in your studies. When you get on to proving that God thing as non-fiction, do let me know. -- ****************************************************** * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * *----------------------------------------------------* * "I distrust those people who know so well what God * * wants them to do because I notice it always * * coincides with their own desires." * * --Susan B. Anthony * ******************************************************
From: Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al) on 31 Jul 2008 22:05 On Aug 1, 8:10 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > On Jul 31, 5:52 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > On Jul 30, 10:15 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > >>> On Jul 30, 6:14 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > > >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>>>news:9dcddedb-bce6-457f-b0c5-d9a6d2bb6bd7(a)m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > > >>>> On Jul 22, 10:04?am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > > >>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>>>>news:8ab589a3-2731-4a92-a41e-d6870a4e6f4b(a)k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > > >>>>>> On Jul 21, 10:08 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > > >>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>>>>>>news:efa8da13-56b6-4386-bfe5-c571b689a669(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > > >>>>>>>>>> God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. > > >>>>>>>>> You have no evidence at all about God.- Hide quoted text - > > >>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > >>>>>>>> Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible? > > >>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > > >>>>>>> You could, but it would be much better if you could provide some > > >>>>>>> evidence > > >>>>>>> of > > >>>>>>> God as well. > > >>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>> Steve O > > >>>>>> God sent His Only Begotten Son, Steve. ?If that was not enough for > > >>>>>> you, nothing I could do or say is going to convince you of anything. > > >>>>>> Robert B. Winn > > >>>>> Got any evidence that Jesus was the son of God? > > >>>>> Please don't say, "the Bible" - that isn't evidence of anything at all, > > >>>>> it's > > >>>>> just an old, old story. > > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> Steve O > > >>>> Well, actually the Bible is evidence of Hezekiah's tunnel. Three > > >>>> different books of the Old Testament describe the construction of > > >>>> Hezekiah's tunnel. > > >>>> ================================ > > >>>> Several of the Harry Potter books mention Kings Cross station. > > >>>> Does that make the Harry Potter stories true? > > >>>> Smiler, > > >>> Why don't you spend some more time studying it, Smiler, and decide for > > >>> yourself? I know that atheists are a little lacking in self- > > >>> confidence, but I think you could decide this question for yourself. > > >> I've studied Hezekiah's Tunnel since you brought it up. I still fail to > > >> see what its existence has to do with the truthfulness of the Bible. > > > >> -- > > >> ****************************************************** > > >> * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * > > > > Well, first you would have to make a decision about Hezekiah's > > > tunnel. Does the tunnel really exist or is it just a hoax the way one > > > atheist claimed? > > > Which atheist? Provide a quote. > > > > Then if you decide it exists, how does that relate > > > to the description of its construction in the Old Testament? Was the > > > tunnel seen today the tunnel described in the Old Testament, or is it > > > some other tunnel the way atheists continue to say in this newsgroup? > > > Which atheists? Provide quotes. > > > > I know this is difficult, but it really is possible for an atheist to > > > make a decision about this. > > > The verses of the Bible that describe the construction of Hezekiah's > > > tunnel are either true, or they are false. So far, having said that > > > the Bible is only myth, atheists are not willing to admit that there > > > are verses describing the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel that are > > > obviously true. > > > How about this mindblower: > > > Hezekiah's Tunnel exists. The Bible talks about it. The Bible is > > true...on this fact only...but has nothing to do with the truthfulness > > of the Bible. > > > Look at every fiction story ever written. A great majority of them > > write about the Earth. An even greater majority talk about humans. > > > Does that mean that the book itself is now nonfiction since it describe > > the Earth exactly how we see it today and how humans are? > > Well, we have made progress to a point, that an atheist has admitted > that the Biblical account of the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel is > true. First of all, not all fiction books describe the construction > of something that can be observed. > But your premise is wrong. Just because you can find a fiction book > that describes something that can be seen does not prove that all > books that describe something that can be seen are fiction. Your misapprehension of his premise is noted. > The > furthest you can go would be to say that the book that describes > something that can be seen could be fiction or non-fiction, but you > cannot say that you have proven it to be fiction. So you would have > to find something else in the book that you claim is fiction, not > Hezekiah's tunnel, which has been proven to be non-fiction. I hope > this will help you in your studies. Yes. Using that logic and one data point, this means the bible is fiction or non-fiction. Using a second data point, say global flood, proves the bible is a work of fiction. Al
From: Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al) on 31 Jul 2008 22:07 On Aug 1, 10:16 am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:fad4de48-9310-4d33-a57b-9596f4ac45f0(a)c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > > Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with > womankind; It is > an abomination. > > ====== > > Hmmm ... so shagging sheep is alright then? So long as you don't lie down with them apparently. Al
From: Matthew Johnson on 31 Jul 2008 22:26
In article <7ee1b619-f752-4597-95f5-33d644aef693(a)z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, AKA Al says... [snip] >> Well, I don't think they are very sincere. All they would have to do >> to never see any more posts from me is just do what Matthew asked them >> to do, stop posting to sci.physics and sci.physics relativity. >> Robert B. Winn > >But that would require all people to stop replying to your lies. You just don't get it, do you? Of course, I don't expect anyone who would voluntary adopt the label "Dogmantic[sic] Pyrrhonist" to get much of anything. >That's not going to happen until you stop posting them here. And just where do you think 'here' is? Winn is not posting them to sci.physics. It is his interlocutors who are doing this. They are the ones who show the insincerity by insisting on such petty crossposting. This whole thread should not exist in the first place. But if it must, then it should exist only in alt.atheism. |