Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: DanielSan on 2 Aug 2008 12:52 rbwinn wrote: > On Aug 1, 7:51�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Aug 1, 7:34 am, ben_dolan_...(a)reet.com (Ben Dolan) wrote: >>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >>>>> What makes a book fiction or non-fiction is the intent of the author or >>>>> authors. A fiction book is an account of imaginary events. >>>> Exactly so, and THAT is why the Bible is fiction. I'm glad you >>>> understand that, you may be making progress. >>> The proclamation of an atheist has no real power. �It does not change >>> reality. >> And the proclamation of a religious nutter such as yourself has even >> less power. �It doesn't even acknowledge reality. >> > So why was I the one who acknowledged that Hezekiah's tunnel exists > while atheists tried to claim that tour guides in Jerusalem were > taking tourists through solid rock? Can you please cite where this happened? Provide quotes. -- **************************************************** * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * *--------------------------------------------------* * Can God create a Thai dish so spicy that even He * * can't eat it? * ****************************************************
From: DanielSan on 2 Aug 2008 12:53 rbwinn wrote: > On Aug 1, 8:11�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Aug 1, 8:14 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>> news:f012c137-ec7a-4f41-acf8-81a047bcb82d(a)8g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> Smiler, >>>>> I never go to alt.atheism. >>>> Idiot - you are never out of it. >>>> Every time you hit that send button with alt.atheism in your headers, you go >>>> there. >>>> All I am doing is responding to posts in >>>>> sci.physics and sci.physics.relativity. >>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>> And alt.atheism, cretin. >>> I don't care what is in the headers. �I have already told you how to >>> avoid talking to me. �Just take sci.physics and sci.physics.relativity >>> out of the header. �I never go to alt.atheism. >> When alt.atheism is in your headers, you ARE going there. �I don't care >> about talking to you or not. �If you care about not talking to atheists, >> however, you're going to have to snip alt.atheism from your headers. >> >> Otherwise, we're going to keep attacking your very tenuous grasp on reality. >> >> If that's the course you wish to take, by all means, keep alt.atheism in >> your headers. > > I don't care about not talking to atheists. It does not bother me to > talk to atheists any more than anyone else. Atheists are the ones > complaining about it. That would be you complaining about it. -- **************************************************** * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * *--------------------------------------------------* * Can God create a Thai dish so spicy that even He * * can't eat it? * ****************************************************
From: rbwinn on 2 Aug 2008 16:08 On Aug 1, 11:55�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Aug 1, 8:28 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 31, 7:05 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > >>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >>>> On Aug 1, 8:10 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 31, 5:52 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jul 30, 10:15 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 6:14 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>>news:9dcddedb-bce6-457f-b0c5-d9a6d2bb6bd7(a)m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 10:04?am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>>>news:8ab589a3-2731-4a92-a41e-d6870a4e6f4b(a)k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 10:08 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>>>>>news:efa8da13-56b6-4386-bfe5-c571b689a669(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have no evidence at all about God.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>>> You could, but it would be much better if you could provide some > >>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence > >>>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>> God as well. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve O > >>>>>>>>>>>> God sent His Only Begotten Son, Steve. ?If that was not enough for > >>>>>>>>>>>> you, nothing I could do or say is going to convince you of anything. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>> Got any evidence that Jesus was the son of God? > >>>>>>>>>>> Please don't say, "the Bible" - that isn't evidence of anything at all, > >>>>>>>>>>> it's > >>>>>>>>>>> just an old, old story. > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>> Steve O > >>>>>>>>>> Well, actually the Bible is evidence of Hezekiah's tunnel. Three > >>>>>>>>>> different books of the Old Testament describe the construction of > >>>>>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel. > >>>>>>>>>> ================================ > >>>>>>>>>> Several of the Harry Potter books mention Kings Cross station. > >>>>>>>>>> Does that make the Harry Potter stories true? > >>>>>>>>>> Smiler, > >>>>>>>>> Why don't you spend some more time studying it, Smiler, and decide for > >>>>>>>>> yourself? I know that atheists are a little lacking in self- > >>>>>>>>> confidence, but I think you could decide this question for yourself. > >>>>>>>> I've studied Hezekiah's Tunnel since you brought it up. I still fail to > >>>>>>>> see what its existence has to do with the truthfulness of the Bible. > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> ****************************************************** > >>>>>>>> * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * > >>>>>>> Well, first you would have to make a decision about Hezekiah's > >>>>>>> tunnel. Does the tunnel really exist or is it just a hoax the way one > >>>>>>> atheist claimed? > >>>>>> Which atheist? Provide a quote. > >>>>>>> Then if you decide it exists, how does that relate > >>>>>>> to the description of its construction in the Old Testament? Was the > >>>>>>> tunnel seen today the tunnel described in the Old Testament, or is it > >>>>>>> some other tunnel the way atheists continue to say in this newsgroup? > >>>>>> Which atheists? Provide quotes. > >>>>>>> I know this is difficult, but it really is possible for an atheist to > >>>>>>> make a decision about this. > >>>>>>> The verses of the Bible that describe the construction of Hezekiah's > >>>>>>> tunnel are either true, or they are false. So far, having said that > >>>>>>> the Bible is only myth, atheists are not willing to admit that there > >>>>>>> are verses describing the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel that are > >>>>>>> obviously true. > >>>>>> How about this mindblower: > >>>>>> Hezekiah's Tunnel exists. The Bible talks about it. The Bible is > >>>>>> true...on this fact only...but has nothing to do with the truthfulness > >>>>>> of the Bible. > >>>>>> Look at every fiction story ever written. A great majority of them > >>>>>> write about the Earth. An even greater majority talk about humans. > >>>>>> Does that mean that the book itself is now nonfiction since it describe > >>>>>> the Earth exactly how we see it today and how humans are? > >>>>> Well, we have made progress to a point, that an atheist has admitted > >>>>> that the Biblical account of the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel is > >>>>> true. First of all, not all fiction books describe the construction > >>>>> of something that can be observed. > >>>>> But your premise is wrong. Just because you can find a fiction book > >>>>> that describes something that can be seen does not prove that all > >>>>> books that describe something that can be seen are fiction. > >>>> Your misapprehension of his premise is noted. > >>>>> The > >>>>> furthest you can go would be to say that the book that describes > >>>>> something that can be seen could be fiction or non-fiction, but you > >>>>> cannot say that you have proven it to be fiction. So you would have > >>>>> to find something else in the book that you claim is fiction, not > >>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel, which has been proven to be non-fiction. I hope > >>>>> this will help you in your studies. > >>>> Yes. > >>>> Using that logic and one data point, this means the bible is fiction > >>>> or non-fiction. > >>>> Using a second data point, say global flood, proves the bible is a > >>>> work of fiction. > >>>> Al- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Well, no it does not. What you are claiming is that if you can find a > >>> mistake or something debatable in a non-fiction book, then you have > >>> proven it is fiction. > >> No. > > >>> What makes a book fiction or non-fiction is the > >>> intent of the author or authors. A fiction book is an account of > >>> imaginary events. > >> ...or people. > > >>> A perceived mistake in a non-fiction book can > >>> happen because of a misinterpretation of events by either the author > >>> or reader of the book. > >> So, you're saying that the Bible has mistakes? > > > Yes, the Bible has mistakes. > > You're in contention with many Christians who believe the Bible to be > inerrant. > I am not in contention with anyone. Why would it bother me if someone thinks the Bible is inerrant? Robert B. Winn
From: DanielSan on 2 Aug 2008 16:10 rbwinn wrote: > On Aug 1, 11:55�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Aug 1, 8:28 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 31, 7:05 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" >>>>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>>>>> On Aug 1, 8:10 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 31, 5:52 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 10:15 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 6:14 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>> news:9dcddedb-bce6-457f-b0c5-d9a6d2bb6bd7(a)m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 10:04?am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:8ab589a3-2731-4a92-a41e-d6870a4e6f4b(a)k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 10:08 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:efa8da13-56b6-4386-bfe5-c571b689a669(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have no evidence at all about God.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You could, but it would be much better if you could provide some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve O >>>>>>>>>>>>>> God sent His Only Begotten Son, Steve. ?If that was not enough for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, nothing I could do or say is going to convince you of anything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>> Got any evidence that Jesus was the son of God? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please don't say, "the Bible" - that isn't evidence of anything at all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>> just an old, old story. >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve O >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually the Bible is evidence of Hezekiah's tunnel. Three >>>>>>>>>>>> different books of the Old Testament describe the construction of >>>>>>>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel. >>>>>>>>>>>> ================================ >>>>>>>>>>>> Several of the Harry Potter books mention Kings Cross station. >>>>>>>>>>>> Does that make the Harry Potter stories true? >>>>>>>>>>>> Smiler, >>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you spend some more time studying it, Smiler, and decide for >>>>>>>>>>> yourself? I know that atheists are a little lacking in self- >>>>>>>>>>> confidence, but I think you could decide this question for yourself. >>>>>>>>>> I've studied Hezekiah's Tunnel since you brought it up. I still fail to >>>>>>>>>> see what its existence has to do with the truthfulness of the Bible. >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> ****************************************************** >>>>>>>>>> * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * >>>>>>>>> Well, first you would have to make a decision about Hezekiah's >>>>>>>>> tunnel. Does the tunnel really exist or is it just a hoax the way one >>>>>>>>> atheist claimed? >>>>>>>> Which atheist? Provide a quote. >>>>>>>>> Then if you decide it exists, how does that relate >>>>>>>>> to the description of its construction in the Old Testament? Was the >>>>>>>>> tunnel seen today the tunnel described in the Old Testament, or is it >>>>>>>>> some other tunnel the way atheists continue to say in this newsgroup? >>>>>>>> Which atheists? Provide quotes. >>>>>>>>> I know this is difficult, but it really is possible for an atheist to >>>>>>>>> make a decision about this. >>>>>>>>> The verses of the Bible that describe the construction of Hezekiah's >>>>>>>>> tunnel are either true, or they are false. So far, having said that >>>>>>>>> the Bible is only myth, atheists are not willing to admit that there >>>>>>>>> are verses describing the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel that are >>>>>>>>> obviously true. >>>>>>>> How about this mindblower: >>>>>>>> Hezekiah's Tunnel exists. The Bible talks about it. The Bible is >>>>>>>> true...on this fact only...but has nothing to do with the truthfulness >>>>>>>> of the Bible. >>>>>>>> Look at every fiction story ever written. A great majority of them >>>>>>>> write about the Earth. An even greater majority talk about humans. >>>>>>>> Does that mean that the book itself is now nonfiction since it describe >>>>>>>> the Earth exactly how we see it today and how humans are? >>>>>>> Well, we have made progress to a point, that an atheist has admitted >>>>>>> that the Biblical account of the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel is >>>>>>> true. First of all, not all fiction books describe the construction >>>>>>> of something that can be observed. >>>>>>> But your premise is wrong. Just because you can find a fiction book >>>>>>> that describes something that can be seen does not prove that all >>>>>>> books that describe something that can be seen are fiction. >>>>>> Your misapprehension of his premise is noted. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>> furthest you can go would be to say that the book that describes >>>>>>> something that can be seen could be fiction or non-fiction, but you >>>>>>> cannot say that you have proven it to be fiction. So you would have >>>>>>> to find something else in the book that you claim is fiction, not >>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel, which has been proven to be non-fiction. I hope >>>>>>> this will help you in your studies. >>>>>> Yes. >>>>>> Using that logic and one data point, this means the bible is fiction >>>>>> or non-fiction. >>>>>> Using a second data point, say global flood, proves the bible is a >>>>>> work of fiction. >>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Well, no it does not. What you are claiming is that if you can find a >>>>> mistake or something debatable in a non-fiction book, then you have >>>>> proven it is fiction. >>>> No. >>>>> What makes a book fiction or non-fiction is the >>>>> intent of the author or authors. A fiction book is an account of >>>>> imaginary events. >>>> ...or people. >>>>> A perceived mistake in a non-fiction book can >>>>> happen because of a misinterpretation of events by either the author >>>>> or reader of the book. >>>> So, you're saying that the Bible has mistakes? >>> Yes, the Bible has mistakes. >> You're in contention with many Christians who believe the Bible to be >> inerrant. >> > I am not in contention with anyone. Why would it bother me if someone > thinks the Bible is inerrant? Those two sentences do not agree with each other. -- **************************************************** * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * *--------------------------------------------------* * Can God create a Thai dish so spicy that even He * * can't eat it? * ****************************************************
From: rbwinn on 2 Aug 2008 16:16
On Aug 1, 11:57�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Aug 1, 8:29 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 31, 8:56 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>> Why don't we just wait for him before judging them then? > >>>>>>>> I happen to think that if anyone needs judging it is the liars and > >>>>>>>> hypocrites. But you don't see me campaigning to remove their human > >>>>>>>> rights. > >>>>>>> Well, yes, I do. Like other atheists you campaign for abortion, > >>>>>>> which removes the right to live of the people who are killed. > >>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>> Please show me evidence that I've campaigned for abortion. Because > >>>>>> that's a flat out lie. And is that your best effort at demonising > >>>>>> atheists? > >>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Atheists have caused more abortions than any other group of people. > >>>> So, you can't show evidence where atheists (like Al) have campaigned for > >>>> abortion. You have lied. > >>>> -- > >>> Josef Stalin was an atheist like Al. While Josef Stalin was dictator > >>> of the Soviet Union, the number of abortions in Russia increased to > >>> about five per woman. > >>> In the People's Republic of China, women who have had one child are > >>> required by the state to abort any children conceived after the first > >>> child is born. > >> So, you have lied. > > > No, I did not lie. > > You said that Al campaigned for abortion. �Are you going to provide > evidence for this? > Sure. Ask Al if he is in favor of right to life. Robert B. Winn |