Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Smiler on 2 Aug 2008 20:22 "DanielSan" <danielsan(a)speakeasy.net> wrote in message news:jaqdnXVHRL_YIgnVnZ2dnUVZ_s7inZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... > rbwinn wrote: >> On Aug 1, 11:55?pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>> rbwinn wrote: >>>> On Aug 1, 8:28 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>> On Jul 31, 7:05 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" >>>>>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>>>>>> On Aug 1, 8:10 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 5:52 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 10:15 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 6:14 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:9dcddedb-bce6-457f-b0c5-d9a6d2bb6bd7(a)m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 10:04?am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:8ab589a3-2731-4a92-a41e-d6870a4e6f4b(a)k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 10:08 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:efa8da13-56b6-4386-bfe5-c571b689a669(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have no evidence at all about God.- Hide quoted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You could, but it would be much better if you could provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve O >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God sent His Only Begotten Son, Steve. ?If that was not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, nothing I could do or say is going to convince you of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Got any evidence that Jesus was the son of God? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please don't say, "the Bible" - that isn't evidence of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything at all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just an old, old story. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve O >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually the Bible is evidence of Hezekiah's tunnel. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Three >>>>>>>>>>>>> different books of the Old Testament describe the construction >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ================================ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Several of the Harry Potter books mention Kings Cross station. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Does that make the Harry Potter stories true? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Smiler, >>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you spend some more time studying it, Smiler, and >>>>>>>>>>>> decide for >>>>>>>>>>>> yourself? I know that atheists are a little lacking in self- >>>>>>>>>>>> confidence, but I think you could decide this question for >>>>>>>>>>>> yourself. >>>>>>>>>>> I've studied Hezekiah's Tunnel since you brought it up. I still >>>>>>>>>>> fail to >>>>>>>>>>> see what its existence has to do with the truthfulness of the >>>>>>>>>>> Bible. >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> ****************************************************** >>>>>>>>>>> * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * >>>>>>>>>> Well, first you would have to make a decision about Hezekiah's >>>>>>>>>> tunnel. Does the tunnel really exist or is it just a hoax the way >>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>> atheist claimed? >>>>>>>>> Which atheist? Provide a quote. >>>>>>>>>> Then if you decide it exists, how does that relate >>>>>>>>>> to the description of its construction in the Old Testament? Was >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> tunnel seen today the tunnel described in the Old Testament, or >>>>>>>>>> is it >>>>>>>>>> some other tunnel the way atheists continue to say in this >>>>>>>>>> newsgroup? >>>>>>>>> Which atheists? Provide quotes. >>>>>>>>>> I know this is difficult, but it really is possible for an >>>>>>>>>> atheist to >>>>>>>>>> make a decision about this. >>>>>>>>>> The verses of the Bible that describe the construction of >>>>>>>>>> Hezekiah's >>>>>>>>>> tunnel are either true, or they are false. So far, having said >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> the Bible is only myth, atheists are not willing to admit that >>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>> are verses describing the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel that >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> obviously true. >>>>>>>>> How about this mindblower: >>>>>>>>> Hezekiah's Tunnel exists. The Bible talks about it. The Bible is >>>>>>>>> true...on this fact only...but has nothing to do with the >>>>>>>>> truthfulness >>>>>>>>> of the Bible. >>>>>>>>> Look at every fiction story ever written. A great majority of them >>>>>>>>> write about the Earth. An even greater majority talk about humans. >>>>>>>>> Does that mean that the book itself is now nonfiction since it >>>>>>>>> describe >>>>>>>>> the Earth exactly how we see it today and how humans are? >>>>>>>> Well, we have made progress to a point, that an atheist has >>>>>>>> admitted >>>>>>>> that the Biblical account of the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> true. First of all, not all fiction books describe the construction >>>>>>>> of something that can be observed. >>>>>>>> But your premise is wrong. Just because you can find a fiction book >>>>>>>> that describes something that can be seen does not prove that all >>>>>>>> books that describe something that can be seen are fiction. >>>>>>> Your misapprehension of his premise is noted. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> furthest you can go would be to say that the book that describes >>>>>>>> something that can be seen could be fiction or non-fiction, but you >>>>>>>> cannot say that you have proven it to be fiction. So you would have >>>>>>>> to find something else in the book that you claim is fiction, not >>>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel, which has been proven to be non-fiction. I hope >>>>>>>> this will help you in your studies. >>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>> Using that logic and one data point, this means the bible is fiction >>>>>>> or non-fiction. >>>>>>> Using a second data point, say global flood, proves the bible is a >>>>>>> work of fiction. >>>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>> Well, no it does not. What you are claiming is that if you can find a >>>>>> mistake or something debatable in a non-fiction book, then you have >>>>>> proven it is fiction. >>>>> No. >>>>>> What makes a book fiction or non-fiction is the >>>>>> intent of the author or authors. A fiction book is an account of >>>>>> imaginary events. >>>>> ...or people. >>>>>> A perceived mistake in a non-fiction book can >>>>>> happen because of a misinterpretation of events by either the author >>>>>> or reader of the book. >>>>> So, you're saying that the Bible has mistakes? >>>> Yes, the Bible has mistakes. >>> You're in contention with many Christians who believe the Bible to be >>> inerrant. >>> >> I am not in contention with anyone. Why would it bother me if someone >> thinks the Bible is inerrant? > > Those two sentences do not agree with each other. > You expect skippy to be both coherent and consistent? You expect FAR too much. He's never managed either on its own, let alone together. Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279
From: Smiler on 2 Aug 2008 21:21 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:f64862aa-0d66-48de-8f60-111ad439405d(a)z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... On Aug 1, 5:34?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:20f1e376-9a97-48d1-9da4-f7cf581dcafc(a)w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com... > On Aug 1, 4:39?am, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 31, 1:11?pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > ============================ > > > > All Christs are false, even the first one. > > > > Well, I think that the best person to tell your idea would be Jesus > > > Christ. ?Why don't you take some time to tell him what you think when > > > he returns to judge the earth? > > > Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Do you know that your mental illness is getting worse? > > You have no way to explain when asked, then you avoid like a scared > > dog losing its fight and ran with tail in between ?the legs.- Hide > > quoted > > text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > How did you come to this conclusion? > ================================== > We can all tell that you're as mad as a hatter and as thick as a > housebrick > without us having any qualifications in psychiatry. > The evidence is in all your posts. > ======================================== > > Were you aware that trying to > practice psychiatry without a license is a felony? > ================================== > Show where is he PRACTISING psychiatry, skippy. > Any time that you declare a person insane you are practicing psychiatry. ===================================== Your lack of knowledge of the law matches your lack of knowledge of everything else. YOU'RE TOTALLY INSANE, BONKERS, A RAVING LUNATIC, MAD AS A HATTER and BARKING MAD. Now go get the legal authorities to come and arrest me, skippy. Print out this post and take it to your local police station. I'll bet they'll agree with me that you are MAD. BTW, I've never claimed to be a psychiatrist, which would be illegal. ============================================ What the law requires you to do is to go to a court and submit a petition requesting the institutionalization of a person believed to be insane. ================================== Only if I am a psychiatrist and only if you *need* to be institutionalised for your own safety, or the safety of others. There is a strong probability that you do need to be institutionalised. Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279
From: rbwinn on 2 Aug 2008 21:41 On Aug 2, 1:10�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Aug 1, 11:55 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Aug 1, 8:28 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 31, 7:05 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > >>>>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >>>>>> On Aug 1, 8:10 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jul 31, 5:52 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 10:15 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 6:14 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>>>>news:9dcddedb-bce6-457f-b0c5-d9a6d2bb6bd7(a)m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 10:04?am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>>>>>news:8ab589a3-2731-4a92-a41e-d6870a4e6f4b(a)k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 10:08 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:efa8da13-56b6-4386-bfe5-c571b689a669(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have no evidence at all about God.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You could, but it would be much better if you could provide some > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God as well. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve O > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> God sent His Only Begotten Son, Steve. ?If that was not enough for > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, nothing I could do or say is going to convince you of anything. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Got any evidence that Jesus was the son of God? > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please don't say, "the Bible" - that isn't evidence of anything at all, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's > >>>>>>>>>>>>> just an old, old story. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve O > >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually the Bible is evidence of Hezekiah's tunnel. Three > >>>>>>>>>>>> different books of the Old Testament describe the construction of > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel. > >>>>>>>>>>>> ================================ > >>>>>>>>>>>> Several of the Harry Potter books mention Kings Cross station. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Does that make the Harry Potter stories true? > >>>>>>>>>>>> Smiler, > >>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you spend some more time studying it, Smiler, and decide for > >>>>>>>>>>> yourself? I know that atheists are a little lacking in self- > >>>>>>>>>>> confidence, but I think you could decide this question for yourself. > >>>>>>>>>> I've studied Hezekiah's Tunnel since you brought it up. I still fail to > >>>>>>>>>> see what its existence has to do with the truthfulness of the Bible. > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> ****************************************************** > >>>>>>>>>> * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * > >>>>>>>>> Well, first you would have to make a decision about Hezekiah's > >>>>>>>>> tunnel. Does the tunnel really exist or is it just a hoax the way one > >>>>>>>>> atheist claimed? > >>>>>>>> Which atheist? Provide a quote. > >>>>>>>>> Then if you decide it exists, how does that relate > >>>>>>>>> to the description of its construction in the Old Testament? Was the > >>>>>>>>> tunnel seen today the tunnel described in the Old Testament, or is it > >>>>>>>>> some other tunnel the way atheists continue to say in this newsgroup? > >>>>>>>> Which atheists? Provide quotes. > >>>>>>>>> I know this is difficult, but it really is possible for an atheist to > >>>>>>>>> make a decision about this. > >>>>>>>>> The verses of the Bible that describe the construction of Hezekiah's > >>>>>>>>> tunnel are either true, or they are false. So far, having said that > >>>>>>>>> the Bible is only myth, atheists are not willing to admit that there > >>>>>>>>> are verses describing the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel that are > >>>>>>>>> obviously true. > >>>>>>>> How about this mindblower: > >>>>>>>> Hezekiah's Tunnel exists. The Bible talks about it. The Bible is > >>>>>>>> true...on this fact only...but has nothing to do with the truthfulness > >>>>>>>> of the Bible. > >>>>>>>> Look at every fiction story ever written. A great majority of them > >>>>>>>> write about the Earth. An even greater majority talk about humans. > >>>>>>>> Does that mean that the book itself is now nonfiction since it describe > >>>>>>>> the Earth exactly how we see it today and how humans are? > >>>>>>> Well, we have made progress to a point, that an atheist has admitted > >>>>>>> that the Biblical account of the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel is > >>>>>>> true. First of all, not all fiction books describe the construction > >>>>>>> of something that can be observed. > >>>>>>> But your premise is wrong. Just because you can find a fiction book > >>>>>>> that describes something that can be seen does not prove that all > >>>>>>> books that describe something that can be seen are fiction. > >>>>>> Your misapprehension of his premise is noted. > >>>>>>> The > >>>>>>> furthest you can go would be to say that the book that describes > >>>>>>> something that can be seen could be fiction or non-fiction, but you > >>>>>>> cannot say that you have proven it to be fiction. So you would have > >>>>>>> to find something else in the book that you claim is fiction, not > >>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel, which has been proven to be non-fiction. I hope > >>>>>>> this will help you in your studies. > >>>>>> Yes. > >>>>>> Using that logic and one data point, this means the bible is fiction > >>>>>> or non-fiction. > >>>>>> Using a second data point, say global flood, proves the bible is a > >>>>>> work of fiction. > >>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Well, no it does not. What you are claiming is that if you can find a > >>>>> mistake or something debatable in a non-fiction book, then you have > >>>>> proven it is fiction. > >>>> No. > >>>>> What makes a book fiction or non-fiction is the > >>>>> intent of the author or authors. A fiction book is an account of > >>>>> imaginary events. > >>>> ...or people. > >>>>> A perceived mistake in a non-fiction book can > >>>>> happen because of a misinterpretation of events by either the author > >>>>> or reader of the book. > >>>> So, you're saying that the Bible has mistakes? > >>> Yes, the Bible has mistakes. > >> You're in contention with many Christians who believe the Bible to be > >> inerrant. > > > I am not in contention with anyone. �Why would it bother me if someone > > thinks the Bible is inerrant? > > Those two sentences do not agree with each other. > > -- Well, of course, you are welcome to your own opinion concerning any of this. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 2 Aug 2008 21:44 On Aug 2, 1:18�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Aug 1, 11:57 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Aug 1, 8:29 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 31, 8:56 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Why don't we just wait for him before judging them then? > >>>>>>>>>> I happen to think that if anyone needs judging it is the liars and > >>>>>>>>>> hypocrites. But you don't see me campaigning to remove their human > >>>>>>>>>> rights. > >>>>>>>>> Well, yes, I do. Like other atheists you campaign for abortion, > >>>>>>>>> which removes the right to live of the people who are killed. > >>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>> Please show me evidence that I've campaigned for abortion. Because > >>>>>>>> that's a flat out lie. And is that your best effort at demonising > >>>>>>>> atheists? > >>>>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> Atheists have caused more abortions than any other group of people. > >>>>>> So, you can't show evidence where atheists (like Al) have campaigned for > >>>>>> abortion. You have lied. > >>>>>> -- > >>>>> Josef Stalin was an atheist like Al. While Josef Stalin was dictator > >>>>> of the Soviet Union, the number of abortions in Russia increased to > >>>>> about five per woman. > >>>>> In the People's Republic of China, women who have had one child are > >>>>> required by the state to abort any children conceived after the first > >>>>> child is born. > >>>> So, you have lied. > >>> No, I did not lie. > >> You said that Al campaigned for abortion. Are you going to provide > >> evidence for this? > > > Sure. �Ask Al if he is in favor of right to life. > > What if he's in favor of choice AND right to life? > So did Al say he was in favor of choice and right to life? Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 2 Aug 2008 21:54
On Aug 2, 1:41�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Aug 2, 9:46 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Aug 1, 7:15 pm, Stan-O <bndsna...(a)aol.com> wrote: > >>>> On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:28:28 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> Anyone who will keep you from taking firearms and shooting at > >>>>>>>> imaginary Satans, since you've already referred to a couple of people > >>>>>>>> by that name... > >>>>>>> I was not referring to people. ?I was referring to the evil spirit > >>>>>>> that had possessed people. > >>>>>> I feel sorry for any children that you have. You'd probably take them > >>>>>> to an exorcist...- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> There is no reason for me to take anyone to an exorcist. > >>>> Oh sure, you say that NOW! Wait until you get a face full of pea soup! > >>> That would still not be a reason to take anyone to an exorcist. > >> Tell that to the Catholic church. > > > Well, I worship God according to the dictates of my conscience, and I > > let Catholics worship God according to the dictates of their > > consciences. > > So, you admit to a schism. > Actually, my church believes that Catholics are apostate Christians. However, my church and the Catholic church have worked together very closely with regard to humanitarian efforts, disaster relief, etc. In this regard, we are probably work better with the Catholics than with any other church. Robert B. Winn |