Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 2 Aug 2008 21:57 On Aug 2, 2:08�pm, "pba...(a)worldonline.nl" <pba...(a)worldonline.nl> wrote: > On 2 aug, 22:36, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Aug 2, 9:46 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > On Aug 1, 7:15 pm, Stan-O <bndsna...(a)aol.com> wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:28:28 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > > >>>>>> Anyone who will keep you from taking firearms and shooting at > > > >>>>>> imaginary Satans, since you've already referred to a couple of people > > > >>>>>> by that name... > > > >>>>> I was not referring to people. ?I was referring to the evil spirit > > > >>>>> that had possessed people. > > > >>>> I feel sorry for any children that you have. You'd probably take them > > > >>>> to an exorcist...- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > > > >>> There is no reason for me to take anyone to an exorcist. > > > >> Oh sure, you say that NOW! Wait until you get a face full of pea soup! > > > > > That would still not be a reason to take anyone to an exorcist. > > > > Tell that to the Catholic church. > > > Well, I worship God according to the dictates of my conscience, and I > > let Catholics worship God according to the dictates of their > > consciences. > > Robert B. Winn- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven - > > > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven - > > And my consciences tells me no to worship. > I hope you will respect that too. > My conscience espescially dictates I should not lie, > and I believe it to be the truth that no god exists. > I hope you will respect that too. > > Now wether you believe this or not It says somewhere that loving god > above all is equal to loving your fellow (wo)man as you love yourself. > > Since my conscience wants me to insist that there is no god, > and at the same time I have every reason to believe that our fellow > (wo)man exitst. > I hope you will love him/her plentyfully. > > Love, > > Peter van Velzen > August 2008 > Amstelveen > The Netherlands- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, the choice to reject God would be your choice, not mine. I am supposed to try to help everyone, which is what I try to do. Robert B. Winn
From: DanielSan on 2 Aug 2008 22:17 rbwinn wrote: > On Aug 2, 1:10�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Aug 1, 11:55 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Aug 1, 8:28 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 31, 7:05 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" >>>>>>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Aug 1, 8:10 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 5:52 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 10:15 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 6:14 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:9dcddedb-bce6-457f-b0c5-d9a6d2bb6bd7(a)m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 10:04?am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:8ab589a3-2731-4a92-a41e-d6870a4e6f4b(a)k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 10:08 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:efa8da13-56b6-4386-bfe5-c571b689a669(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have no evidence at all about God.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You could, but it would be much better if you could provide some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve O >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God sent His Only Begotten Son, Steve. ?If that was not enough for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, nothing I could do or say is going to convince you of anything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Got any evidence that Jesus was the son of God? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please don't say, "the Bible" - that isn't evidence of anything at all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just an old, old story. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve O >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually the Bible is evidence of Hezekiah's tunnel. Three >>>>>>>>>>>>>> different books of the Old Testament describe the construction of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ================================ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Several of the Harry Potter books mention Kings Cross station. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does that make the Harry Potter stories true? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Smiler, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you spend some more time studying it, Smiler, and decide for >>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself? I know that atheists are a little lacking in self- >>>>>>>>>>>>> confidence, but I think you could decide this question for yourself. >>>>>>>>>>>> I've studied Hezekiah's Tunnel since you brought it up. I still fail to >>>>>>>>>>>> see what its existence has to do with the truthfulness of the Bible. >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> ****************************************************** >>>>>>>>>>>> * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * >>>>>>>>>>> Well, first you would have to make a decision about Hezekiah's >>>>>>>>>>> tunnel. Does the tunnel really exist or is it just a hoax the way one >>>>>>>>>>> atheist claimed? >>>>>>>>>> Which atheist? Provide a quote. >>>>>>>>>>> Then if you decide it exists, how does that relate >>>>>>>>>>> to the description of its construction in the Old Testament? Was the >>>>>>>>>>> tunnel seen today the tunnel described in the Old Testament, or is it >>>>>>>>>>> some other tunnel the way atheists continue to say in this newsgroup? >>>>>>>>>> Which atheists? Provide quotes. >>>>>>>>>>> I know this is difficult, but it really is possible for an atheist to >>>>>>>>>>> make a decision about this. >>>>>>>>>>> The verses of the Bible that describe the construction of Hezekiah's >>>>>>>>>>> tunnel are either true, or they are false. So far, having said that >>>>>>>>>>> the Bible is only myth, atheists are not willing to admit that there >>>>>>>>>>> are verses describing the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel that are >>>>>>>>>>> obviously true. >>>>>>>>>> How about this mindblower: >>>>>>>>>> Hezekiah's Tunnel exists. The Bible talks about it. The Bible is >>>>>>>>>> true...on this fact only...but has nothing to do with the truthfulness >>>>>>>>>> of the Bible. >>>>>>>>>> Look at every fiction story ever written. A great majority of them >>>>>>>>>> write about the Earth. An even greater majority talk about humans. >>>>>>>>>> Does that mean that the book itself is now nonfiction since it describe >>>>>>>>>> the Earth exactly how we see it today and how humans are? >>>>>>>>> Well, we have made progress to a point, that an atheist has admitted >>>>>>>>> that the Biblical account of the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel is >>>>>>>>> true. First of all, not all fiction books describe the construction >>>>>>>>> of something that can be observed. >>>>>>>>> But your premise is wrong. Just because you can find a fiction book >>>>>>>>> that describes something that can be seen does not prove that all >>>>>>>>> books that describe something that can be seen are fiction. >>>>>>>> Your misapprehension of his premise is noted. >>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> furthest you can go would be to say that the book that describes >>>>>>>>> something that can be seen could be fiction or non-fiction, but you >>>>>>>>> cannot say that you have proven it to be fiction. So you would have >>>>>>>>> to find something else in the book that you claim is fiction, not >>>>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel, which has been proven to be non-fiction. I hope >>>>>>>>> this will help you in your studies. >>>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>>> Using that logic and one data point, this means the bible is fiction >>>>>>>> or non-fiction. >>>>>>>> Using a second data point, say global flood, proves the bible is a >>>>>>>> work of fiction. >>>>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Well, no it does not. What you are claiming is that if you can find a >>>>>>> mistake or something debatable in a non-fiction book, then you have >>>>>>> proven it is fiction. >>>>>> No. >>>>>>> What makes a book fiction or non-fiction is the >>>>>>> intent of the author or authors. A fiction book is an account of >>>>>>> imaginary events. >>>>>> ...or people. >>>>>>> A perceived mistake in a non-fiction book can >>>>>>> happen because of a misinterpretation of events by either the author >>>>>>> or reader of the book. >>>>>> So, you're saying that the Bible has mistakes? >>>>> Yes, the Bible has mistakes. >>>> You're in contention with many Christians who believe the Bible to be >>>> inerrant. >>> I am not in contention with anyone. �Why would it bother me if someone >>> thinks the Bible is inerrant? >> Those two sentences do not agree with each other. >> >> -- > Well, of course, you are welcome to your own opinion concerning any of > this. Yes, but it still doesn't change the fact that you can't even stay cohesive from sentence to sentence. -- **************************************************** * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * *--------------------------------------------------* * Can God create a Thai dish so spicy that even He * * can't eat it? * ****************************************************
From: Free Lunch on 2 Aug 2008 23:52 On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 23:37:25 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in alt.atheism: >On Aug 1, 8:26?am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >> > On Jul 31, 6:21 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> >> rbwinn wrote: >> >>> On Jul 31, 5:52 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> >>>> rbwinn wrote: >> >>>>> On Jul 30, 10:15 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >> >>>>>>> On Jul 30, 6:14 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >>>>>>>>news:9dcddedb-bce6-457f-b0c5-d9a6d2bb6bd7(a)m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... >> >>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 10:04?am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >>>>>>>>>news:8ab589a3-2731-4a92-a41e-d6870a4e6f4b(a)k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >> >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 10:08 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >>>>>>>>>>>news:efa8da13-56b6-4386-bfe5-c571b689a669(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You have no evidence at all about God.- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like me to send you a copy of the Bible? >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >> >>>>>>>>>>> You could, but it would be much better if you could provide some >> >>>>>>>>>>> evidence >> >>>>>>>>>>> of >> >>>>>>>>>>> God as well. >> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >> >>>>>>>>>>> Steve O >> >>>>>>>>>> God sent His Only Begotten Son, Steve. ?If that was not enough for >> >>>>>>>>>> you, nothing I could do or say is going to convince you of anything. >> >>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >> >>>>>>>>> Got any evidence that Jesus was the son of God? >> >>>>>>>>> Please don't say, "the Bible" - that isn't evidence of anything at all, >> >>>>>>>>> it's >> >>>>>>>>> just an old, old story. >> >>>>>>>>> -- >> >>>>>>>>> Steve O >> >>>>>>>> Well, actually the Bible is evidence of Hezekiah's tunnel. Three >> >>>>>>>> different books of the Old Testament describe the construction of >> >>>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel. >> >>>>>>>> ================================ >> >>>>>>>> Several of the Harry Potter books mention Kings Cross station. >> >>>>>>>> Does that make the Harry Potter stories true? >> >>>>>>>> Smiler, >> >>>>>>> Why don't you spend some more time studying it, Smiler, and decide for >> >>>>>>> yourself? I know that atheists are a little lacking in self- >> >>>>>>> confidence, but I think you could decide this question for yourself. >> >>>>>> I've studied Hezekiah's Tunnel since you brought it up. I still fail to >> >>>>>> see what its existence has to do with the truthfulness of the Bible. >> >>>>>> -- >> >>>>>> ****************************************************** >> >>>>>> * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * >> >>>>> Well, first you would have to make a decision about Hezekiah's >> >>>>> tunnel. Does the tunnel really exist or is it just a hoax the way one >> >>>>> atheist claimed? >> >>>> Which atheist? Provide a quote. >> >>>>> Then if you decide it exists, how does that relate >> >>>>> to the description of its construction in the Old Testament? Was the >> >>>>> tunnel seen today the tunnel described in the Old Testament, or is it >> >>>>> some other tunnel the way atheists continue to say in this newsgroup? >> >>>> Which atheists? Provide quotes. >> >>>>> I know this is difficult, but it really is possible for an atheist to >> >>>>> make a decision about this. >> >>>>> The verses of the Bible that describe the construction of Hezekiah's >> >>>>> tunnel are either true, or they are false. So far, having said that >> >>>>> the Bible is only myth, atheists are not willing to admit that there >> >>>>> are verses describing the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel that are >> >>>>> obviously true. >> >>>> How about this mindblower: >> >>>> Hezekiah's Tunnel exists. The Bible talks about it. The Bible is >> >>>> true...on this fact only...but has nothing to do with the truthfulness >> >>>> of the Bible. >> >>>> Look at every fiction story ever written. A great majority of them >> >>>> write about the Earth. An even greater majority talk about humans. >> >>>> Does that mean that the book itself is now nonfiction since it describe >> >>>> the Earth exactly how we see it today and how humans are? >> >>> Well, we have made progress to a point, that an atheist has admitted >> >>> that the Biblical account of the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel is >> >>> true. First of all, not all fiction books describe the construction >> >>> of something that can be observed. >> >> And that's irrelevant. >> >> >>> But your premise is wrong. Just because you can find a fiction book >> >>> that describes something that can be seen does not prove that all >> >>> books that describe something that can be seen are fiction. >> >> Doesn't prove they're nonfiction, either. You're starting to get it. >> >> Just because a book talks about the construction of something is >> >> irrelevant to the veracity of the book. >> >> > No, it is not irrelevant. >> >> Yes. ?Yes, it is. >> >> >> >> >>> The >> >>> furthest you can go would be to say that the book that describes >> >>> something that can be seen could be fiction or non-fiction, but you >> >>> cannot say that you have proven it to be fiction. So you would have >> >>> to find something else in the book that you claim is fiction, not >> >>> Hezekiah's tunnel, which has been proven to be non-fiction. I hope >> >>> this will help you in your studies. >> >> When you get on to proving that God thing as non-fiction, do let me know. >> >> >> -- >> > God already proved it. ?If you reject the atonement of Christ for your >> > sins, it is your problem, not mine. >> >> God has done nothing of the sort. ?Someone told you that God proved it, >> but do you have any evidence that he did? >> >> PS: Your threat given vicariously through some dead guy we can't even >> show to exist is summarily rejected. >> >There is no threat. You atheists say that you do not want to enter >heaven. Once again, you have chosen to lie. What we have said is that there is no reason to believe in heaven because no evidence at all backs up your claim that heaven exists. We have said nothing about wanting or not wanting to enter it, though it is true that the heaven that many Christians describe is hellishly oppressive. >You will get exactly what you say you want. So where is the >threat? You act as if there is a hell. No evidence backs it up, yet you continue to yammer on about this imaginary place. >It is a threat to give someone what they say they want? Hell and heaven are both fantasies. No evidence backs up anything about them. Every time you talk about it, you show us how completely deluded you are.
From: Free Lunch on 2 Aug 2008 23:53 On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:08:55 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in alt.atheism: >On Aug 1, 2:30?pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: .... >> > Discuss it with John after the resurrection. >> >> No proof of this alleged "resurrection", is there? >> >Well, actually there is. The apostles were witnesses of the >resurrected Christ on two separate occasions. No evidence backs up your claim.
From: Free Lunch on 2 Aug 2008 23:54
On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 23:40:30 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in alt.atheism: >On Aug 1, 8:29?am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >> > On Jul 31, 8:56 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> >> rbwinn wrote: >> >> >>>>>> Why don't we just wait for him before judging them then? >> >>>>>> I happen to think that if anyone needs judging it is the liars and >> >>>>>> hypocrites. But you don't see me campaigning to remove their human >> >>>>>> rights. >> >>>>> Well, yes, I do. Like other atheists you campaign for abortion, >> >>>>> which removes the right to live of the people who are killed. >> >>>>> Robert B. Winn >> >>>> Please show me evidence that I've campaigned for abortion. Because >> >>>> that's a flat out lie. And is that your best effort at demonising >> >>>> atheists? >> >>>> Al- Hide quoted text - >> >>>> - Show quoted text - >> >>> Atheists have caused more abortions than any other group of people. >> >> So, you can't show evidence where atheists (like Al) have campaigned for >> >> abortion. You have lied. >> >> >> -- >> >> > Josef Stalin was an atheist like Al. ?While Josef Stalin was dictator >> > of the Soviet Union, the number of abortions in Russia increased to >> > about five per woman. >> > In the People's Republic of China, women who have had one child are >> > required by the state to abort any children conceived after the first >> > child is born. >> >> So, you have lied. > >No, I did not lie. You lie to us all the time. This was one such example. |