Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 27 Jun 2008 08:31 On Jun 22, 12:58 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 21, 5:07 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > > wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 20, 4:22 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 20, 3:35 am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 19, 8:22 am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 3:50 pm, Darrell Stec > >>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 10:11�am, Darrell Stec > >>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2:53�am, Darrell Stec > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I analyzed the Bible. �What I find is that God > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would not want His children to die and just cease to be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or to be punished forever, so He sent his Son to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overcome death. �Because of wickedness, we see today > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that most people will reject God's gift of eternal life. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me ask you a question. �Who would know more about LDS > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> theology, one of the churches twelve apostles, or a Hari > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna monk> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Who do you think would know more about LDS theology? �Why > >>>>>>>>>>>>> do you ask? Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>> Evasion noted. �Why are you afraid to answer a couple of easy > >>>>>>>>>>>> questions? Why do you think I would ask? �Could it be the > >>>>>>>>>>>> answer might be obvious? > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, if the answer is obvious, then there was no reason to > >>>>>>>>>>> ask the question.  Go ahead and say whatever you were going to > >>>>>>>>>>> say. Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to tell us whether or not one of the 12 > >>>>>>>>>> apostles of the Mormon church would know more about LDS theology > >>>>>>>>>> than an Hari Krishna monk? What are you afraid of?  I know the > >>>>>>>>>> answer, but I don't know if you do and that is why I am asking.. > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> Later, > >>>>>>>>>> Darrell Stec    dars...(a)neo.rr.com > >>>>>>>>> Well, why don't you just make up your own mind about that? > >>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>> I already have made an informed and knowledgeable opinion.  I am > >>>>>>>> trying to find out what you believe (asking what you think would be > >>>>>>>> unfair because you are shooting without bullets) to be the case. > >>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to answer the question?  Is it because it has > >>>>>>>> never been discussed in bible school and you have nothing to copy > >>>>>>>> and paste? Go ask your bishop what he thinks, as you allow others > >>>>>>>> to think for you until you pull stupid things out of thin air. > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> Well, why don't you ask my bishop yourself? > >>>>>> What is his name, email address, physical address and phone number and > >>>>>> I will ask him.  I'll also send him a list of your more insane > >>>>>> postings. > >>>>>>> I told you athiests > >>>>>>> before that I was not going to be your researcher. > >>>>>> What research do you need to do to answer a question as to whether an > >>>>>> apostle of your church's council of twelve would know more about LDS > >>>>>> philosophy than a Hari Krishna monk?  That is a person opinion.  Or do > >>>>>> you mean that nobody told you what to think in regard to the question > >>>>>> so you can't copy and paste it? > >>>>>>> If you want to know what I believe,I can give you name to the > >>>>>>> missionaries as a referral , and they can tell you what I beleive.. > >>>>>> Why can't you give us your opinion yourself?  Why are you having so > >>>>>> many problems answering an easy question?  What are you afraid of? > >>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>> Well, the General Authorities of our church have counseled us to avoid > >>>>> contention with other churches.  So if you have some bone to pick with > >>>>> the Hare Kirshna church, leave me out of it. > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>> Why are you avoiding the question?  Why is it so difficult for you to > >>>> answer the question?  It is a simple one.  Whom do you think knows more > >>>> about LDS theology, one of the twelve apostles making up the council of > >>>> the LDS church or a Hari Krishna monk?  What are you afraid of. > >>>> Certainly there is no injunction in your church against answering the > >>>> question.  Why are you avoiding it? > >>> I am not avoiding it.  You said the answer is obvious, so obviously, > >>> you already know the answer. > >>> Robert B. Winn > >> I know the answer to the question.  I do not know what YOUR answer to the > >> question is because you are too afraid to answer a simple, direct question. > >> Why is that?  I want to know what YOUR answer to the question is. > > >> -- > > Well, just write to church headquarters in Salt Lake City and get an > > official answer from the church.  Anything I could tell you would only > > be my own opinion. > > Anything they tell us would only be theirs.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, so you are going to make up something then and attribute it to us. We have seen this before. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 27 Jun 2008 08:36 On Jun 22, 1:04 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 21, 4:09 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 21, 8:16�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>>> "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote in message > >>>>news:6c4ja8F3erpl2U1(a)mid.individual.net... > >>>>> If you think that Harry Potter is fiction then you must also think that > >>>>> London doesn't exist right? > >>>>> You'd better tell that to all of the people who live there, it may come as > >>>>> a surprise to them. > >>>> Like the esteemed Mr Winn Esq, London councils have no doubt whatsoever > >>>> about the existence of London. �At least, that is what they profess when > >>>> they send out council tax demands. > >>> Taxes.  Well, that is something that should convince some atheists. > >>> Taxes are something they will never deny. > >> Are taxes evidence that any gods exist?- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Taxes are evidence that atheists exist. > > I'm sure that you believe that. Why should we? > > Who needs more evidence that atheists exist? Some supporting evidence > for gods would be of more intersest.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, we offered the Bible as evidence, and you said that it was all mythology. Then we said, what about the parts that tell of Hezekiah's tunnel and the earthen ramp the Assyrian army built over the city wall when they took Lachish? Those can still be seen today. No, Harry Potter left from the train station in London to go to wizard's school, so the city of London does not exist. But I know a man from London. He says that Harry Potter does not exist. Atheists do not believe that I know a man from London. Tell me how a supporting evidence means anything to an atheist. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 27 Jun 2008 08:37 On Jun 22, 12:57 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 21, 4:32 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > > wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 20, 4:01 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 20, 2:40 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 20, 5:34 am, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 5:55 am, TT <tte...(a)wowway.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, go ahead and talk about God, but I can tell you ahead of > >>>>>>>>>>> time, you do not know anything about God. No atheist does. > >>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>> nahh...we'll discus what we want...you choose your fiction..and > >>>>>>>>>> that's all you have been expressing faith in..nothing else...and > >>>>>>>>>> we'll point out our fiction...and we won't base a worldview on > >>>>>>>>>> our inability to deal with reality like you do....Don't like it? > >>>>>>>>>> Pray for us...otherwise..tough... > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the > >>>>>>>>>> question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is > >>>>>>>>>> it right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position > >>>>>>>>>> that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because > >>>>>>>>>> conscience tells one it is right. > >>>>>>>>>> Martin Luther king Jr.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> Well, people would do better if they learned to do their own > >>>>>>>>> praying. Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>> Thinking is preferred by everyone else here..it actually does > >>>>>>>> something... > >>>>>>> Well, so you think that you can destroy Christianity. That was what > >>>>>>> this conversation was about when it began. That was why I was > >>>>>>> pointing out that the Bible was the best selling book in the world. > >>>>>>> Not so, said atheists. Harry Potter is the best selling book in the > >>>>>>> world. > >>>>>> That's a bit melodramatic, isn't it? I'm just interested in your > >>>>>> beliefs and how they're rationalised. Destroying Christianity is a > >>>>>> ridiculous aspiration, you'd constantly be disappointed!- Hide quoted > >>>>>> text - > >>>>> So why do atheists have schools teaching that Christianity is false? > >>>>> If they do not have the aspiration, why are they trying to do it? > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>> Can you name those schools? It which specific class would that be > >>>> taught? What is an atheist school and how is it designated, by some type > >>>> of charter or corporate document? > >>>> -- > >>>> Later, > >>>> Darrell Stec dars...(a)neo.rr.com > >>>> Webpage Sorceryhttp://webpagesorcery.com > >>>> We Put the Magic in Your Webpages- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> All public education in the United States is now atheistic. > >> Here, let me try again. You didn't seem to answer the questions, probably > >> because the format was too difficult for you. Let me try to simplify > >> things. > > >> Question one: Can you name those schools? > > >> Your answer to this question goes here (hint: list of names of specific > >> schools): > > >> Question two: In which specific class would 'Christianity is false' be > >> taught? > > >> Your answer to question two goes here (hint: list the actual names of the > >> class and textbooks used that show your statement to be true for those > >> schools listed in question one): > > >> Question three: What is an atheist school? > > >> Answer to question three goes here (hint: give a fully qualified definition > >> of atheist school): > > >> Question four: How is it designated? > > >> Answer to question number four goes here (hint: how does an atheist school > >> delineate itself from any other type of school): > > >> Question five: Do you gather this information and tell it is an atheist > >> school from its charter or incorporation papers? > > >> Answer to question five goes here (hint: please give the exact document you > >> used as issued by named schools to prove they are atheist schools): > > >> If these questions are still too difficult for you, let me know and I will > >> ask other readers here to help me recompose them with a grammar and > >> vocabulary appropos for a first or second grade pupil so you can comprehend > >> and then answer them. > > >>> Robert B. Winn > > > All public schools are required to teach atheism. > > Please explain how, specifically, they are doing that. Sounding like > another sacred lie...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Teachers hired to teach in public schools are trained in college to teach atheism. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 27 Jun 2008 08:40 On Jun 22, 1:09 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 21, 4:17 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 21, 4:14 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 20, 3:40 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 19, 12:06�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>> <snip> > >>>>>>>>> Well, what you are saying is that the Biblical account of the Assyrian > >>>>>>>>> invasion of Judea is fiction. �What part of it do you claim is > >>>>>>>>> fiction? �So far we have discussed the earthen ramp and Hezekiah's > >>>>>>>>> tunnel. �Are you still claiming that those are fiction? > >>>>>>>> You're still claiming London doesn't exist, huh? > >>>>>>>> I don't know either account, so really don't have an opinion. Have you > >>>>>>>> considered that maybe neither account is accurate? If pressed, I would > >>>>>>>> go with the explanation with the best evidential support. I don't have a > >>>>>>>> reason to decide at this point. > >>>>>>>> Happy to be agnostic on something! > >>>>>>> OK, well, my opinion is that unless an atheist has an opinion about > >>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel and the earthen ramp, it is a waste of time to try > >>>>>>> to discuss the Bible with that person. > >>>>>> Wow, why would you say that? It's a minor Biblical detail. > >>>>>> They exist, is that opinion enough?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Well, any person who will not admit that someing exists which can be > >>>>> seen is not going to admit the existence of things which cannot be > >>>>> seen.  So conversation with atheists is totally unprofitable. > >>>> No-one *ever* denied their existence. If they did, then you have > >>>> consistently denied that London exists too. > >>>> All we demand is logical consistency. Would you like to talk about Harry > >>>> Potter again? ;-)- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> No reason to talk about Harry Potter.  There never was. > >> Then there was no reason to talk about Hezekiah's tunnel or earthern > >> ramps either. I agree with you. :-)- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > You said you wanted to talk about the Bible.  So now are you saying > > that you only want to discuss the parts of the Bible that you select? > > I don't remember saying that, maybe if you could point me to the post? I > don't remember selecting the topic of discussion either, you brought up > Hezekiah's tunnel and invading army ramps. Discuss what you like Robert, > we might even find some common ground!- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, actions speak louder than words. You do not want to discuss Hezekiah's tunnel. You do not want to discuss the earthen ramp. You will discuss certain verses of the Bible you can find fault with. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 27 Jun 2008 08:48
On Jun 27, 12:31 am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 26, 5:59 am, "W.A. Sawford" <was1...(a)cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote: > >> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008, rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 26, 5:05 am, RobertL <robertml...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>> On Jun 26, 4:48 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 25, 7:27�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > >>> Well, if no one proved it, then it was not proven.  All you have done > >>> is to say it was proven without showing any proof or anyone who is > >>> suppsed to have done it.  Atheists have said they have proven all > >>> manner of things.  Almost always it turns out to be something some > >>> individual atheist put together that sounds good to other atheists. > >>> Robert B. Winn > >> I wasn't going to get involved in all this (unless it's Friday, which it > >> isn't) but I can't stand it any longer (sigh). > > >> 'Atheists have said they have proven all manner of things.' > > >> Well, what exactly have they claimed to have proved, and which atheists > >> have claimed it?  Atheists don't actually need to 'prove' anything, > >> because there is not a shred of evidence that god exists in the first > >> place. The onus is not on atheists to prove the non-existence of god any > >> more than the non-existence of the ravening bug-blatter beast of Traal.. > > >> Show me some real evidence and I'll think about belief. Although actual > >> evidence would of course remove the need for belief in the first place.... > > >> Wendy > > > Well, give me your address, and I can send you a Bible.  So we will > > run through what has been said so far.  Atheists say that everything > > in the Bible is mythology.  > > No they do not. > > They sy it is a mixture of history, mythology and social mores.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, they do now that I have brought up the subject of Hezekiah's tunnel and the earthen ramp, which can both be seen today. Before that, they were saying there was nothing in the Bible that was not mythology and nothing in the Bible that could be proven. Atheists say whatever they think will fly. It just so happened that I knew about Hezekiah's tunnel, so what they usually say was not sufficient for this conversation. So now they are saying that the Bible has some history in it, but they are not happy about having to say that. They would rather be saying what they said when this conversation started, that the Bible is nothing but mythology. Robert B. Winn |