Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 28 Jun 2008 02:56 On Jun 27, 6:53 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 22, 1:09 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 21, 4:17 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 21, 4:14 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 20, 3:40 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 12:06�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> <snip> > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, what you are saying is that the Biblical account of the Assyrian > >>>>>>>>>>> invasion of Judea is fiction. �What part of it do you claim is > >>>>>>>>>>> fiction? �So far we have discussed the earthen ramp and Hezekiah's > >>>>>>>>>>> tunnel. �Are you still claiming that those are fiction? > >>>>>>>>>> You're still claiming London doesn't exist, huh? > >>>>>>>>>> I don't know either account, so really don't have an opinion. Have you > >>>>>>>>>> considered that maybe neither account is accurate? If pressed, I would > >>>>>>>>>> go with the explanation with the best evidential support. I don't have a > >>>>>>>>>> reason to decide at this point. > >>>>>>>>>> Happy to be agnostic on something! > >>>>>>>>> OK, well, my opinion is that unless an atheist has an opinion about > >>>>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel and the earthen ramp, it is a waste of time to try > >>>>>>>>> to discuss the Bible with that person. > >>>>>>>> Wow, why would you say that? It's a minor Biblical detail. > >>>>>>>> They exist, is that opinion enough?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> Well, any person who will not admit that someing exists which can be > >>>>>>> seen is not going to admit the existence of things which cannot be > >>>>>>> seen.  So conversation with atheists is totally unprofitable.. > >>>>>> No-one *ever* denied their existence. If they did, then you have > >>>>>> consistently denied that London exists too. > >>>>>> All we demand is logical consistency. Would you like to talk about Harry > >>>>>> Potter again? ;-)- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> No reason to talk about Harry Potter.  There never was. > >>>> Then there was no reason to talk about Hezekiah's tunnel or earthern > >>>> ramps either. I agree with you. :-)- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> You said you wanted to talk about the Bible.  So now are you saying > >>> that you only want to discuss the parts of the Bible that you select? > >> I don't remember saying that, maybe if you could point me to the post? I > >> don't remember selecting the topic of discussion either, you brought up > >> Hezekiah's tunnel and invading army ramps. Discuss what you like Robert, > >> we might even find some common ground!- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Well, actions speak louder than words.  You do not want to discuss > > Hezekiah's tunnel.  You do not want to discuss the earthen ramp.  You > > will discuss certain verses of the Bible you can find fault with. > > I'm just following where the conversation takes me. If you would like to > discuss something specific then raise it.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, I wanted to discuss Hezekiah's tunnel. No atheist will discuss it with me. Robert B. winn
From: rbwinn on 28 Jun 2008 02:57 On Jun 27, 6:54�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:93faee1e-7aa9-4f18-b761-3a585ebcbaf0(a)v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 26, 5:05 am, RobertL <robertml...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 26, 4:48 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > On Jun 25, 7:27?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > > > > > Actually, you ought to consider the consequences of a proof by God > > > > > that he does not exist. > > > > > If that were to happen, people would have no choice except to believe > > > > in God. > > > > > Why should anyone believe in a proven non-existent god? > > > > Proven by whom? > > By god himself! > > > > > A proof is a proof; it doesn't matter who proved it. > > > Robert > > Well, if there was no one who proved it, and nothing was proven, then > it did not happen. > ----------------------------------- > Just like your bible stories. > Well, I believed in the story of Hezekiah's tunnel being dug, and sure enough, there is a tunnel there today, just as the Bible says there is. How do you explain it? Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 28 Jun 2008 03:02 On Jun 27, 7:02�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > Chris Shore wrote: > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >news:621f5b5c-8511-45b7-ae9f-03c8a9914fd5(a)s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com.... > > >> Well, they do now that I have brought up the subject of Hezekiah's > >> tunnel and the earthen ramp, which can both be seen today. �Before > >> that, they were saying there was nothing in the Bible that was not > >> mythology and nothing in the Bible that could be proven. �Atheists say > >> whatever they think will fly. �It just so happened that I knew about > >> Hezekiah's tunnel, so what they usually say was not sufficient for > >> this conversation. �So now they are saying that the Bible has some > >> history in it, but they are not happy about having to say that. �They > >> would rather be saying what they said when this conversation started, > >> that the Bible is nothing but mythology. > > > Of course the Bibel has some history in it. And of course some of it > > is verifiable. So are various parts of various other ancient texts from > > other > > ancient historical/religious cultures. This prove absolutely nothing. > > How is this difficult to understand? Three thousand posts suggest that > it is.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, there you go again denying the existence of Hezekiah's tunnel. The existence of Hezekiah's tunnel proves that the Bible is accurate aboput there being a conduit for water between Gihon Spring and the Pool of Siloam. Robert B. Winn
From: BuddyThunder on 28 Jun 2008 03:11 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 27, 6:37�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jun 22, 12:57 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>> ask other readers here to help me recompose them with a grammar and >>>>>> vocabulary appropos for a first or second grade pupil so you can comprehend >>>>>> and then answer them. >>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>> All public schools are required to teach atheism. >>>> Please explain how, specifically, they are doing that. Sounding like >>>> another sacred lie...- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Teachers hired to teach in public schools are trained in college to >>> teach atheism. >> Is it explicit in their contract? Can you justify that claim? <chirpiing >> crickets>- Hide quoted text - >> > Well, yes it is explicit in their contract. If someone prayed in > school the way my sixth grade teacher did, he would be fired. I didn't know they had a prayer clause in there. You learn something new every day. Don't you think religion belongs at home, not at school?
From: BuddyThunder on 28 Jun 2008 03:19
rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 27, 6:38 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jun 22, 12:58 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jun 21, 5:07 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 20, 4:22 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 3:35 am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 8:22 am, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 3:50 pm, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 10:11�am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2:53�am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I analyzed the Bible. �What I find is that God >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would not want His children to die and just cease to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or to be punished forever, so He sent his Son to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overcome death. �Because of wickedness, we see today >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that most people will reject God's gift of eternal life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me ask you a question. �Who would know more about LDS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theology, one of the churches twelve apostles, or a Hari >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna monk> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who do you think would know more about LDS theology? �Why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do you ask? Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evasion noted. �Why are you afraid to answer a couple of easy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions? Why do you think I would ask? �Could it be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer might be obvious? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, if the answer is obvious, then there was no reason to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask the question. Go ahead and say whatever you were going to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say. Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to tell us whether or not one of the 12 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostles of the Mormon church would know more about LDS theology >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than an Hari Krishna monk? What are you afraid of? I know the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer, but I don't know if you do and that is why I am asking. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Later, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darrell Stec dars...(a)neo.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, why don't you just make up your own mind about that? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>> I already have made an informed and knowledgeable opinion. I am >>>>>>>>>>>> trying to find out what you believe (asking what you think would be >>>>>>>>>>>> unfair because you are shooting without bullets) to be the case. >>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to answer the question? Is it because it has >>>>>>>>>>>> never been discussed in bible school and you have nothing to copy >>>>>>>>>>>> and paste? Go ask your bishop what he thinks, as you allow others >>>>>>>>>>>> to think for you until you pull stupid things out of thin air. >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Well, why don't you ask my bishop yourself? >>>>>>>>>> What is his name, email address, physical address and phone number and >>>>>>>>>> I will ask him. I'll also send him a list of your more insane >>>>>>>>>> postings. >>>>>>>>>>> I told you athiests >>>>>>>>>>> before that I was not going to be your researcher. >>>>>>>>>> What research do you need to do to answer a question as to whether an >>>>>>>>>> apostle of your church's council of twelve would know more about LDS >>>>>>>>>> philosophy than a Hari Krishna monk? That is a person opinion. Or do >>>>>>>>>> you mean that nobody told you what to think in regard to the question >>>>>>>>>> so you can't copy and paste it? >>>>>>>>>>> If you want to know what I believe,I can give you name to the >>>>>>>>>>> missionaries as a referral , and they can tell you what I beleive. >>>>>>>>>> Why can't you give us your opinion yourself? Why are you having so >>>>>>>>>> many problems answering an easy question? What are you afraid of? >>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>> Well, the General Authorities of our church have counseled us to avoid >>>>>>>>> contention with other churches. So if you have some bone to pick with >>>>>>>>> the Hare Kirshna church, leave me out of it. >>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>> Why are you avoiding the question? Why is it so difficult for you to >>>>>>>> answer the question? It is a simple one. Whom do you think knows more >>>>>>>> about LDS theology, one of the twelve apostles making up the council of >>>>>>>> the LDS church or a Hari Krishna monk? What are you afraid of. >>>>>>>> Certainly there is no injunction in your church against answering the >>>>>>>> question. Why are you avoiding it? >>>>>>> I am not avoiding it. You said the answer is obvious, so obviously, >>>>>>> you already know the answer. >>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>> I know the answer to the question. I do not know what YOUR answer to the >>>>>> question is because you are too afraid to answer a simple, direct question. >>>>>> Why is that? I want to know what YOUR answer to the question is. >>>>>> -- >>>>> Well, just write to church headquarters in Salt Lake City and get an >>>>> official answer from the church. Anything I could tell you would only >>>>> be my own opinion. >>>> Anything they tell us would only be theirs.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, so you are going to make up something then and attribute it to >>> us. We have seen this before. >> I'm not sure where this claim comes from, can you tell me?- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > It came from me. Maybe if you could show me where I did that? Why won't you back up anything you say? |