Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: BuddyThunder on 28 Jun 2008 03:26 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 27, 6:42�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> Jack wrote: >>>> I am upset by *people* who >>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try �to impose >>>> their >>>> beliefs on me �using the Bible as evidence. >>> How can someone impose a belief on you? �Just believe whatever you want to >>> believe. >> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate >> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > > Well, actually they use fables. The apostles Paul said they would be > turned to fables in the last days. A fable is a story about animals > like the story about monkeys turning into humans. Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised.
From: BuddyThunder on 28 Jun 2008 03:28 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 27, 6:47 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jun 22, 1:04 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jun 21, 4:09 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 21, 8:16�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>> "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:6c4ja8F3erpl2U1(a)mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>> If you think that Harry Potter is fiction then you must also think that >>>>>>>>> London doesn't exist right? >>>>>>>>> You'd better tell that to all of the people who live there, it may come as >>>>>>>>> a surprise to them. >>>>>>>> Like the esteemed Mr Winn Esq, London councils have no doubt whatsoever >>>>>>>> about the existence of London. �At least, that is what they profess when >>>>>>>> they send out council tax demands. >>>>>>> Taxes. Well, that is something that should convince some atheists. >>>>>>> Taxes are something they will never deny. >>>>>> Are taxes evidence that any gods exist?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Taxes are evidence that atheists exist. >>>> I'm sure that you believe that. Why should we? >>>> Who needs more evidence that atheists exist? Some supporting evidence >>>> for gods would be of more intersest.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, we offered the Bible as evidence, and you said that it was all >>> mythology. Then we said, what about the parts that tell of Hezekiah's >>> tunnel and the earthen ramp the Assyrian army built over the city wall >>> when they took Lachish? Those can still be seen today. No, Harry >>> Potter left from the train station in London to go to wizard's school, >>> so the city of London does not exist. >>> But I know a man from London. He says that Harry Potter does not >>> exist. Atheists do not believe that I know a man from London. >>> Tell me how a supporting evidence means anything to an atheist. >> How is the Bible evidence for any gods' existence? >> >> The reason we're going on about Harry Potter is that it exposes your >> standards of Biblical evidence as very, very weak. Did you have some >> other point? It wasn't clear to me.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Harry Potter is only a fictional character in a book. Harry Potter > does not expose anything. It exposes the logical inconsistencies that have to be made to justify faith.
From: BuddyThunder on 28 Jun 2008 03:32 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 27, 6:51 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jun 26, 4:00�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.c> >>> Have you seen the originals to confirm this? >>>>> What language were they in? >>>> I don't need to. �If it says something wrong, it was not translated >>>> correctly. >>>> --------------------------- >>>> When you come across two passages that say diametrically opposite things, >>>> how do you know which one wasn't translated correctly without going to the >>>> originals? If one was incorrectly translated, why not both of them? >>>> Smiler, >>> Well, you would still need to be able to tell right from wrong, which >>> atheists claim they cannot do. >> I not only claim that I *can* do that, I can offer a sensible rationale >> too independent of mythology too. :-)- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, but you seem to reject Hezekiah's tunnel as mythology. So what > are you going to tell those poor tourists you have walking through > solid rock? No I don't. I just don't see how it being written about in the Bible somehow means the whole Bible is true any more than London being mentioned in Harry Potter means that I could really send my child to Hogwarts!
From: BuddyThunder on 28 Jun 2008 03:33 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 27, 6:53 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jun 22, 1:09 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jun 21, 4:17 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 21, 4:14 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 3:40 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 12:06�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> <snip> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, what you are saying is that the Biblical account of the Assyrian >>>>>>>>>>>>> invasion of Judea is fiction. �What part of it do you claim is >>>>>>>>>>>>> fiction? �So far we have discussed the earthen ramp and Hezekiah's >>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnel. �Are you still claiming that those are fiction? >>>>>>>>>>>> You're still claiming London doesn't exist, huh? >>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know either account, so really don't have an opinion. Have you >>>>>>>>>>>> considered that maybe neither account is accurate? If pressed, I would >>>>>>>>>>>> go with the explanation with the best evidential support. I don't have a >>>>>>>>>>>> reason to decide at this point. >>>>>>>>>>>> Happy to be agnostic on something! >>>>>>>>>>> OK, well, my opinion is that unless an atheist has an opinion about >>>>>>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel and the earthen ramp, it is a waste of time to try >>>>>>>>>>> to discuss the Bible with that person. >>>>>>>>>> Wow, why would you say that? It's a minor Biblical detail. >>>>>>>>>> They exist, is that opinion enough?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>> Well, any person who will not admit that someing exists which can be >>>>>>>>> seen is not going to admit the existence of things which cannot be >>>>>>>>> seen. So conversation with atheists is totally unprofitable. >>>>>>>> No-one *ever* denied their existence. If they did, then you have >>>>>>>> consistently denied that London exists too. >>>>>>>> All we demand is logical consistency. Would you like to talk about Harry >>>>>>>> Potter again? ;-)- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> No reason to talk about Harry Potter. There never was. >>>>>> Then there was no reason to talk about Hezekiah's tunnel or earthern >>>>>> ramps either. I agree with you. :-)- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> You said you wanted to talk about the Bible. So now are you saying >>>>> that you only want to discuss the parts of the Bible that you select? >>>> I don't remember saying that, maybe if you could point me to the post? I >>>> don't remember selecting the topic of discussion either, you brought up >>>> Hezekiah's tunnel and invading army ramps. Discuss what you like Robert, >>>> we might even find some common ground!- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, actions speak louder than words. You do not want to discuss >>> Hezekiah's tunnel. You do not want to discuss the earthen ramp. You >>> will discuss certain verses of the Bible you can find fault with. >> I'm just following where the conversation takes me. If you would like to >> discuss something specific then raise it.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, I wanted to discuss Hezekiah's tunnel. No atheist will discuss > it with me. We've practically done nothing but talk about it, but completely failed to extract why you think it's important.
From: BuddyThunder on 28 Jun 2008 03:36
rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 27, 6:54�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >> news:93faee1e-7aa9-4f18-b761-3a585ebcbaf0(a)v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com... >> On Jun 26, 5:05 am, RobertL <robertml...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> On Jun 26, 4:48 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >>>> On Jun 25, 7:27?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: >>>>>> Actually, you ought to consider the consequences of a proof by God >>>>>> that he does not exist. >>>>> If that were to happen, people would have no choice except to believe >>>>> in God. >>>>> Why should anyone believe in a proven non-existent god? >>>> Proven by whom? >> By god himself! >> >> >> >>> A proof is a proof; it doesn't matter who proved it. >>> Robert >> Well, if there was no one who proved it, and nothing was proven, then >> it did not happen. >> ----------------------------------- >> Just like your bible stories. >> > Well, I believed in the story of Hezekiah's tunnel being dug, and sure > enough, there is a tunnel there today, just as the Bible says there > is. How do you explain it? They dug a tunnel. It got written about. What's the big deal? |