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From: krw on 19 Feb 2010 21:12 On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:59:59 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >krw wrote: >> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:22:47 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> krw wrote: >>>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:49:38 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Joel Koltner wrote: >>>>>> "krw" <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message >>>>>> news:hforn5todgh8shm5elno5spnc0j3edk3n1(a)4ax.com... >>>>>>> Amazing. Where did you go to school? >>>>>> University of Wisconsin-Madison. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the early '90s there was still more variety of computers as well -- >>>>>> PCs were clearly the most popular with Macs second, but there were also >>>>>> a sizeable number of people with Atari STs, Apple IIGSes, Amigas and >>>>>> even some NeXTstations for the real hard-core computer guys; there were >>>>>> user groups for most that met somewhere reasonably close to campus. >>>>>> (The Amiga group that I occasionally visited met in the "union south," >>>>>> which was immediately adjacent to all the engineering buildings.) >>>>>> >>>>>>> We had a few rooms of 029s (perhaps sixty). They were clean and very >>>>>>> bright, if littered with cards and chad. I only took one CS course >>>>>>> (well, I started a PDP-8 assembly course but got sick so dropped it). >>>>>> Wow... :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> When I returned for my master's at Oregon State here, I was a bit sad to >>>>>> see that within engineering HP calculators had gone from >90% to <33%! >>>>>> >>>>> And solder irons had probably gone to even less that 33% :-( >>>> I doubt 10% of my class owned a soldering iron. I doubt 10% know >>>> which end to pick up today. >>>> >>> Not sure when you graduated but in my days (early 80's) nearly everyone >>> would solder until you had clouds in the room. >> >> '74. I don't remember anyone doing labs at home and only a few labs >> had soldering irons (mostly the RF labs). Everythign else was done on >> proto-boards or other fixtures. >> > >Ok, I grew up with ham radio friends. If we didn't have some piece of >equipment we made it (and shared). If someone became stuck on a project >and needed assistance from a more senior ham a cold bottle of beer would >always do the trick :-) I did the same in high school. One of the profs (a friend of my father's) was my mentor. No beer needed, though. None of my high school friends went into EE, though. In the late '60s and early '70s EE wasn't a popular curriculum. >>> Most of them were >>> assembling Apple II clones and such. One of my side jobs at the >>> university was to come up with low cost tools they can build. Poor man's >>> spectrum analyzer, function generators and so on. The plans were free >>> and if there were unavoidable difficult-to-buy parts we'd organize pool >>> orders and stuff. >> >> PCs were long-off. I worked in the EE department electronics "shop". >> In addition to maintaining the lab equipment we built fixtures and lab >> setups. No one had any equipment of their own. The labs were >> extremely well equipped, though. Almost all the equipment was Tek and >> HP, with WaveTek being the popular generator. > > >In the 70's when I was a teenager I had equipment of my own. Some was >really old stuff that I restored. Other things were home-made, still got >some of it and it still works. Mostly ham-related because that's what I >needed and couldn't afford to buy: I've never owned much test equipment. Until the last year, I've always worked were they had far better stuff than I could dream of buying. I don't want it now. >http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/oak2.jpg >http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/accukeyer.jpg I worked for (their first employee, actually) HAL Electronics making electronic keyers and keyer kits when I was in high school. >http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/PL509amp2.jpg >http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/QB5amp2.jpg > >The most difficult part was always the enclosure because all I had was >hand tools and my dad let me borrow his hammer drill. I used aluminum chassis and a nibbling tool.
From: krw on 19 Feb 2010 21:15 On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:01:43 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >krw wrote: >> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:28:20 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> krw wrote: >>>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:38:08 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Joel Koltner wrote: >>>>>> "Vladimir Vassilevsky" <nospam(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:x_GdnbNeQpvYmuLWnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d(a)giganews.com... >>>>>>> So-called "double soup": dissolve two packs of dry noodle soup in the >>>>>>> amount of water intended for one pack (that's why it was called >>>>>>> "double"), add some potatoes and whatever else you may have, then boil >>>>>>> it until it will be a uniform kasha. >>>>>> Wow; that is meager. I'm glad you made it with your health intact! How >>>>>> long ago was that? >>>>>> >>>>>>> Did you make tea with a pair of razor blades? >>>>>> No, I surely didn't. Please elaborate on how it's done? >>>>>> >>>>>> When I lived in the dorms at university's (1990-1994), you were required >>>>>> to buy a meal plan from the university's cafeterias -- they had various >>>>>> plans available, from "borderline-anorexic jockey" to "linebacker." >>>>>> These days many schools have switched some or all of their own >>>>>> cafeterias over to the nationwide fast food franchises -- Subwauy, Pizza >>>>>> Hut, etc. Kinda sad; to some degree it reflects the fact that tuition >>>>>> and books are so incredibly expensive these days in the first place, >>>>>> food is now comparatively quite cheap. (I also suspect that there's no >>>>>> remaining major college today that doesn't have a Starbucks within ready >>>>>> walking distance of campus. :-) ) >>>>>> >>>>> But they can't make you live and eat on campus, can they? I rarely >>>>> frequented the cantinas of our university. They were cheap but not much >>>>> cheaper than cooking your own meals and the food there was not exactly >>>>> gourmet quality. >>>> Certainly can. A few weeks ago, one of the news reports here was that >>>> Auburn was going to force every student to buy a meal plan, whether >>>> they wanted it or not. Even those living off-campus. >>>> >>>>> IMHO it is an important aspect of off-campus living that one gets >>>>> exposed to a larger spread of people and not just academic types. >>>> Apparently they're going to make that impossible, too. UVM required >>>> Freshmen to live on-campus, even if they couldn't afford dorms and >>>> could live at home. Alabama universities (Both 'bama and Auburn) are >>>> also going that way, except not just for Freshmen. >>>> >>>> Thirty-five years ago UIUC required Freshmen to live on campus, unless >>>> they could live at home. >>> >>> Very sad. And nobody does anything against that? I find it almost >>> discriminatory. I am not a fan of legal action but if those universities >>> receive even one dime in public funding I hope someone manages to get a >>> class together and challenge them. >> >> Auburn and UofAlabama *are* the Alabama state universities (as are UVM >> in Vermont and UIUC in Illinois). How is it discriminatory if >> everyone is treated the same? Indeed that may be one of the reasons >> (excuses) behind the stupidity. It's only "fair" if everyone suffers >> together. > > >If students who can't afford on-campus dorms are forced to rent a room >there they may have no choice but not to enroll at all. That is >discriminatory. Ah, but if they're poor they get a full-boat scholarship, free. It's the middle class that suffers with this bullshit, as designed.
From: Joerg on 19 Feb 2010 21:37 krw wrote: > On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:59:59 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> krw wrote: >>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:22:47 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> krw wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:49:38 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Joel Koltner wrote: >>>>>>> "krw" <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:hforn5todgh8shm5elno5spnc0j3edk3n1(a)4ax.com... >>>>>>>> Amazing. Where did you go to school? >>>>>>> University of Wisconsin-Madison. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the early '90s there was still more variety of computers as well -- >>>>>>> PCs were clearly the most popular with Macs second, but there were also >>>>>>> a sizeable number of people with Atari STs, Apple IIGSes, Amigas and >>>>>>> even some NeXTstations for the real hard-core computer guys; there were >>>>>>> user groups for most that met somewhere reasonably close to campus. >>>>>>> (The Amiga group that I occasionally visited met in the "union south," >>>>>>> which was immediately adjacent to all the engineering buildings.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We had a few rooms of 029s (perhaps sixty). They were clean and very >>>>>>>> bright, if littered with cards and chad. I only took one CS course >>>>>>>> (well, I started a PDP-8 assembly course but got sick so dropped it). >>>>>>> Wow... :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I returned for my master's at Oregon State here, I was a bit sad to >>>>>>> see that within engineering HP calculators had gone from >90% to <33%! >>>>>>> >>>>>> And solder irons had probably gone to even less that 33% :-( >>>>> I doubt 10% of my class owned a soldering iron. I doubt 10% know >>>>> which end to pick up today. >>>>> >>>> Not sure when you graduated but in my days (early 80's) nearly everyone >>>> would solder until you had clouds in the room. >>> '74. I don't remember anyone doing labs at home and only a few labs >>> had soldering irons (mostly the RF labs). Everythign else was done on >>> proto-boards or other fixtures. >>> >> Ok, I grew up with ham radio friends. If we didn't have some piece of >> equipment we made it (and shared). If someone became stuck on a project >> and needed assistance from a more senior ham a cold bottle of beer would >> always do the trick :-) > > I did the same in high school. One of the profs (a friend of my > father's) was my mentor. No beer needed, though. None of my high > school friends went into EE, though. In the late '60s and early '70s > EE wasn't a popular curriculum. > >>>> Most of them were >>>> assembling Apple II clones and such. One of my side jobs at the >>>> university was to come up with low cost tools they can build. Poor man's >>>> spectrum analyzer, function generators and so on. The plans were free >>>> and if there were unavoidable difficult-to-buy parts we'd organize pool >>>> orders and stuff. >>> PCs were long-off. I worked in the EE department electronics "shop". >>> In addition to maintaining the lab equipment we built fixtures and lab >>> setups. No one had any equipment of their own. The labs were >>> extremely well equipped, though. Almost all the equipment was Tek and >>> HP, with WaveTek being the popular generator. >> >> In the 70's when I was a teenager I had equipment of my own. Some was >> really old stuff that I restored. Other things were home-made, still got >> some of it and it still works. Mostly ham-related because that's what I >> needed and couldn't afford to buy: > > I've never owned much test equipment. Until the last year, I've > always worked were they had far better stuff than I could dream of > buying. I don't want it now. > >> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/oak2.jpg >> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/accukeyer.jpg > > I worked for (their first employee, actually) HAL Electronics making > electronic keyers and keyer kits when I was in high school. > HAL was totally unaffordable for me and many others. I always marveled at their stuff but then we usually built it ourselves. I remember one guy threading enameled wired through dozens of toroids to make a poor man's matrix keyboard, cussing and all. But it worked. >> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/PL509amp2.jpg >> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/QB5amp2.jpg >> >> The most difficult part was always the enclosure because all I had was >> hand tools and my dad let me borrow his hammer drill. > > I used aluminum chassis and a nibbling tool. A nibbling tool was really expensive in Germany because you could only buy brand name stuff. So it had to be the old file and blisters. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Joerg on 19 Feb 2010 21:39 krw wrote: > On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:01:43 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> krw wrote: >>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:28:20 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> krw wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:38:08 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Joel Koltner wrote: >>>>>>> "Vladimir Vassilevsky" <nospam(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:x_GdnbNeQpvYmuLWnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d(a)giganews.com... >>>>>>>> So-called "double soup": dissolve two packs of dry noodle soup in the >>>>>>>> amount of water intended for one pack (that's why it was called >>>>>>>> "double"), add some potatoes and whatever else you may have, then boil >>>>>>>> it until it will be a uniform kasha. >>>>>>> Wow; that is meager. I'm glad you made it with your health intact! How >>>>>>> long ago was that? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Did you make tea with a pair of razor blades? >>>>>>> No, I surely didn't. Please elaborate on how it's done? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I lived in the dorms at university's (1990-1994), you were required >>>>>>> to buy a meal plan from the university's cafeterias -- they had various >>>>>>> plans available, from "borderline-anorexic jockey" to "linebacker." >>>>>>> These days many schools have switched some or all of their own >>>>>>> cafeterias over to the nationwide fast food franchises -- Subwauy, Pizza >>>>>>> Hut, etc. Kinda sad; to some degree it reflects the fact that tuition >>>>>>> and books are so incredibly expensive these days in the first place, >>>>>>> food is now comparatively quite cheap. (I also suspect that there's no >>>>>>> remaining major college today that doesn't have a Starbucks within ready >>>>>>> walking distance of campus. :-) ) >>>>>>> >>>>>> But they can't make you live and eat on campus, can they? I rarely >>>>>> frequented the cantinas of our university. They were cheap but not much >>>>>> cheaper than cooking your own meals and the food there was not exactly >>>>>> gourmet quality. >>>>> Certainly can. A few weeks ago, one of the news reports here was that >>>>> Auburn was going to force every student to buy a meal plan, whether >>>>> they wanted it or not. Even those living off-campus. >>>>> >>>>>> IMHO it is an important aspect of off-campus living that one gets >>>>>> exposed to a larger spread of people and not just academic types. >>>>> Apparently they're going to make that impossible, too. UVM required >>>>> Freshmen to live on-campus, even if they couldn't afford dorms and >>>>> could live at home. Alabama universities (Both 'bama and Auburn) are >>>>> also going that way, except not just for Freshmen. >>>>> >>>>> Thirty-five years ago UIUC required Freshmen to live on campus, unless >>>>> they could live at home. >>>> Very sad. And nobody does anything against that? I find it almost >>>> discriminatory. I am not a fan of legal action but if those universities >>>> receive even one dime in public funding I hope someone manages to get a >>>> class together and challenge them. >>> Auburn and UofAlabama *are* the Alabama state universities (as are UVM >>> in Vermont and UIUC in Illinois). How is it discriminatory if >>> everyone is treated the same? Indeed that may be one of the reasons >>> (excuses) behind the stupidity. It's only "fair" if everyone suffers >>> together. >> >> If students who can't afford on-campus dorms are forced to rent a room >> there they may have no choice but not to enroll at all. That is >> discriminatory. > > Ah, but if they're poor they get a full-boat scholarship, free. It's > the middle class that suffers with this bullshit, as designed. Hmm, now don't tell me Alabama is like here. That is one of the states on my "the grass is greener" list. Or better not? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: JosephKK on 19 Feb 2010 22:57
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:15:54 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >krw wrote: >> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:10:13 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:25:26 -0800, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Fred Bartoli wrote: >>>>>> Fred Abse a écrit : >>>>>>> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:26:20 -0800, JosephKK wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Geez, did everybody forget the three phase rectifier efficiency that >>>>>>>> Fred Bartoli did for me? Note the stepped load on the right. >>>>>>> T'warn't Fred Bartoli,t'was I :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>> Oh, I thought even I forgot about it :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, I don't use much LTspice thanks to its poor GUI, so I couldn't >>>>>> have done it... >>>>>> >>>>> You guys are spoiled, or too young. Back when I started the "GUI" of >>>>> PSpice consisted of a rather small green CRT hanging off some CGA card. >>>>> I had the deluxe edition, a CRT in nicotine-yellow :-) >>>> Sheeeesh! When I started using Spice I drew schematics on paper pads, >>>> numbered the nodes, typed in the netlist and ran it under DOS. >>>> >>>> Aaron eased my pain by writing a pre/post version controller which >>>> numbered all the .CIR and .DAT files so I could keep track of all the >>>> changes. >>>> >>>> Data spewed forth from a tractor feed printer: >>>> >>>> .001 * >>>> .002 * >>>> .003 * >>>> .004 * >>>> >>>> etc. Anyone else remember those days? >>>> >>> A friend of mine tried this with a Commodore daisy wheel printer, same >>> that I used to have. It could do microstepping and he just used the dot. >>> Which consequently wore out real fast ... >> >> When I first started with IBM, we used communicating Selectrics and >> 2741s (a bullet-proofed Selectric sort of thing) for this. Overnight >> runs used a different simulator and chain printers. The printing was >> the same as above, though, and printouts were often a foot thick. >> > >Then you probably remember their first PC word processor, EasyWriter. >That's what I started out with. Later I learned that the programmer >wrote it while doing time in the slammer, IIRC for blue-boxing. > I thought that Electric Pencil was first only to discover that it predates the IBM PC. I think that Word Star was the first PC mass market text editor with printout formatting. Mostly lifted from vi and Tex from unix land. > >>> My first forays in to computing was writing Fortran. Using a Juki punch >>> card machine. >> >> We used IBM 029s in high school and college with a 360/75 (amazing >> beast) at the business end. > > >IBM was always the good stuff. We had two IBM punchers and two Jukis, >for about 400 students. The IBMs were always occupied, the Jukis broken >most of the time. We weren't s'posed to ... but ... I always carried a >pouch with tools along. So I repaired one and whoopdidou, had a seat. |