Ping Larkin
in [Design]
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From: Joerg on 27 Oct 2009 19:16 Jim Thompson wrote: > On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:16:29 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Charlie E. wrote: >>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:00:28 +0000, Martin Brown >>> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>> ChrisQ wrote: >>>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>>> On the news a few days ago: They had to close the "environmentally >>>>>>> compliant" new wing of a school because of H1N1. The old (real) >>>>>>> buildings exhibited little problems because you could open windows, >>>>>>> "hallways" were outdoors, etc. The newfangled building was >>>>>>> essentially a giant petri dish and so the kids there got sick. So >>>>>>> much for progress. >>>> That is a weakness of a lot of the no external opening windows designs. >>>> Sick building syndrome as the formaldehyde and other junk from the >>>> furniture and carpets accumulates in a poorly ventilated space. There is >>>> no excuse for not having fresh air heated by outgoing stale air though. >>> <snip> >>> >>> My home here (three years new) has not only double pane windows, it >>> also has plastic sealing in all the exterior walls. In a 70 mph wind, >>> there are only a few places where I can feel a draft - one by a wall >>> outlet, and the other around my back door. The door flexes enough to >>> release the weather stripping! >>> >>> But, my HVAC system also has a timer that causes it to go on with the >>> fan only at least every so often, and the system has an intake to the >>> outside for fresh air. ... >> >> I've always wondered where to get those. It would need to be before the >> filter or have its own filter. This whole concept of whole house fans is >> so strange, they rely on venting out instead of in so all the dust and >> pollen is sucked into the house. In Australia there are (IIRC) systems >> that blow in instead, makes a lot more sense. Never seen that in the US. >> >> [...] > > What does it matter, push or suck? As long as the filter is on the > inlet side? I think, actually, suction is more efficient. > For a whole house fan you need to have a huge opening, meaning at least one of the big glass sliders. If you don't then you'll have stuff flying about. Unfortunately it ain't practical to have a 3ft*6ft filter tacked to the screen door even if you managed to find one ;-) I think this whole technology is rather stone-age. Same with swamp coolers. All you can buy is those big and ugly boxes. Nobody makes a flat one with a nice cartridge filter. Progress in that domain seems to be as sluggish as it is with pellet stoves. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Jim Thompson on 27 Oct 2009 19:26 On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:16:21 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:16:29 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Charlie E. wrote: >>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:00:28 +0000, Martin Brown >>>> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>> ChrisQ wrote: >>>>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>>>> On the news a few days ago: They had to close the "environmentally >>>>>>>> compliant" new wing of a school because of H1N1. The old (real) >>>>>>>> buildings exhibited little problems because you could open windows, >>>>>>>> "hallways" were outdoors, etc. The newfangled building was >>>>>>>> essentially a giant petri dish and so the kids there got sick. So >>>>>>>> much for progress. >>>>> That is a weakness of a lot of the no external opening windows designs. >>>>> Sick building syndrome as the formaldehyde and other junk from the >>>>> furniture and carpets accumulates in a poorly ventilated space. There is >>>>> no excuse for not having fresh air heated by outgoing stale air though. >>>> <snip> >>>> >>>> My home here (three years new) has not only double pane windows, it >>>> also has plastic sealing in all the exterior walls. In a 70 mph wind, >>>> there are only a few places where I can feel a draft - one by a wall >>>> outlet, and the other around my back door. The door flexes enough to >>>> release the weather stripping! >>>> >>>> But, my HVAC system also has a timer that causes it to go on with the >>>> fan only at least every so often, and the system has an intake to the >>>> outside for fresh air. ... >>> >>> I've always wondered where to get those. It would need to be before the >>> filter or have its own filter. This whole concept of whole house fans is >>> so strange, they rely on venting out instead of in so all the dust and >>> pollen is sucked into the house. In Australia there are (IIRC) systems >>> that blow in instead, makes a lot more sense. Never seen that in the US. >>> >>> [...] >> >> What does it matter, push or suck? As long as the filter is on the >> inlet side? I think, actually, suction is more efficient. >> > >For a whole house fan you need to have a huge opening, meaning at least >one of the big glass sliders. If you don't then you'll have stuff flying >about. Unfortunately it ain't practical to have a 3ft*6ft filter tacked >to the screen door even if you managed to find one ;-) > >I think this whole technology is rather stone-age. Same with swamp >coolers. All you can buy is those big and ugly boxes. Nobody makes a >flat one with a nice cartridge filter. Progress in that domain seems to >be as sluggish as it is with pellet stoves. At the old house, with "dual" cooling, "swamp" + A/C, I'd run the swamp with no water this time of year. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | With Half My Brain Tied Behind My Back Still More Clever Than Mr.Prissy Pants
From: Jim Thompson on 27 Oct 2009 19:28 On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:26:15 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:16:21 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >wrote: > >>Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:16:29 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Charlie E. wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:00:28 +0000, Martin Brown >>>>> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>>> ChrisQ wrote: >>>>>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>>>>> On the news a few days ago: They had to close the "environmentally >>>>>>>>> compliant" new wing of a school because of H1N1. The old (real) >>>>>>>>> buildings exhibited little problems because you could open windows, >>>>>>>>> "hallways" were outdoors, etc. The newfangled building was >>>>>>>>> essentially a giant petri dish and so the kids there got sick. So >>>>>>>>> much for progress. >>>>>> That is a weakness of a lot of the no external opening windows designs. >>>>>> Sick building syndrome as the formaldehyde and other junk from the >>>>>> furniture and carpets accumulates in a poorly ventilated space. There is >>>>>> no excuse for not having fresh air heated by outgoing stale air though. >>>>> <snip> >>>>> >>>>> My home here (three years new) has not only double pane windows, it >>>>> also has plastic sealing in all the exterior walls. In a 70 mph wind, >>>>> there are only a few places where I can feel a draft - one by a wall >>>>> outlet, and the other around my back door. The door flexes enough to >>>>> release the weather stripping! >>>>> >>>>> But, my HVAC system also has a timer that causes it to go on with the >>>>> fan only at least every so often, and the system has an intake to the >>>>> outside for fresh air. ... >>>> >>>> I've always wondered where to get those. It would need to be before the >>>> filter or have its own filter. This whole concept of whole house fans is >>>> so strange, they rely on venting out instead of in so all the dust and >>>> pollen is sucked into the house. In Australia there are (IIRC) systems >>>> that blow in instead, makes a lot more sense. Never seen that in the US. >>>> >>>> [...] >>> >>> What does it matter, push or suck? As long as the filter is on the >>> inlet side? I think, actually, suction is more efficient. >>> >> >>For a whole house fan you need to have a huge opening, meaning at least >>one of the big glass sliders. If you don't then you'll have stuff flying >>about. Unfortunately it ain't practical to have a 3ft*6ft filter tacked >>to the screen door even if you managed to find one ;-) >> >>I think this whole technology is rather stone-age. Same with swamp >>coolers. All you can buy is those big and ugly boxes. Nobody makes a >>flat one with a nice cartridge filter. Progress in that domain seems to >>be as sluggish as it is with pellet stoves. > >At the old house, with "dual" cooling, "swamp" + A/C, I'd run the >swamp with no water this time of year. > > ...Jim Thompson BTW, It's delightful here, feels like San Diego ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | With Half My Brain Tied Behind My Back Still More Clever Than Mr.Prissy Pants
From: Joerg on 27 Oct 2009 19:49 Jim Thompson wrote: > On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:16:21 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:16:29 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Charlie E. wrote: [...] >>>>> But, my HVAC system also has a timer that causes it to go on with the >>>>> fan only at least every so often, and the system has an intake to the >>>>> outside for fresh air. ... >>>> I've always wondered where to get those. It would need to be before the >>>> filter or have its own filter. This whole concept of whole house fans is >>>> so strange, they rely on venting out instead of in so all the dust and >>>> pollen is sucked into the house. In Australia there are (IIRC) systems >>>> that blow in instead, makes a lot more sense. Never seen that in the US. >>>> >>>> [...] >>> What does it matter, push or suck? As long as the filter is on the >>> inlet side? I think, actually, suction is more efficient. >>> >> For a whole house fan you need to have a huge opening, meaning at least >> one of the big glass sliders. If you don't then you'll have stuff flying >> about. Unfortunately it ain't practical to have a 3ft*6ft filter tacked >> to the screen door even if you managed to find one ;-) >> >> I think this whole technology is rather stone-age. Same with swamp >> coolers. All you can buy is those big and ugly boxes. Nobody makes a >> flat one with a nice cartridge filter. Progress in that domain seems to >> be as sluggish as it is with pellet stoves. > > At the old house, with "dual" cooling, "swamp" + A/C, I'd run the > swamp with no water this time of year. > If the swamp coolers weren't so big and ugly ... -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Jim Thompson on 27 Oct 2009 20:22
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:49:08 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:16:21 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:16:29 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Charlie E. wrote: > >[...] > >>>>>> But, my HVAC system also has a timer that causes it to go on with the >>>>>> fan only at least every so often, and the system has an intake to the >>>>>> outside for fresh air. ... >>>>> I've always wondered where to get those. It would need to be before the >>>>> filter or have its own filter. This whole concept of whole house fans is >>>>> so strange, they rely on venting out instead of in so all the dust and >>>>> pollen is sucked into the house. In Australia there are (IIRC) systems >>>>> that blow in instead, makes a lot more sense. Never seen that in the US. >>>>> >>>>> [...] >>>> What does it matter, push or suck? As long as the filter is on the >>>> inlet side? I think, actually, suction is more efficient. >>>> >>> For a whole house fan you need to have a huge opening, meaning at least >>> one of the big glass sliders. If you don't then you'll have stuff flying >>> about. Unfortunately it ain't practical to have a 3ft*6ft filter tacked >>> to the screen door even if you managed to find one ;-) >>> >>> I think this whole technology is rather stone-age. Same with swamp >>> coolers. All you can buy is those big and ugly boxes. Nobody makes a >>> flat one with a nice cartridge filter. Progress in that domain seems to >>> be as sluggish as it is with pellet stoves. >> >> At the old house, with "dual" cooling, "swamp" + A/C, I'd run the >> swamp with no water this time of year. >> > >If the swamp coolers weren't so big and ugly ... Mine was on the south _end_ of the house (NOT roof mounted) where it went essentially unnoticed. (Lots of space on an acre to hide things :-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | With Half My Brain Tied Behind My Back Still More Clever Than Mr.Prissy Pants |