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From: ChrisQ on 29 Oct 2009 06:35 Michael A. Terrell wrote: > Joerg wrote: >> Easy with a mechanical timer if needed. But that's what the CD4060 was >> invented for. Maybe that's too difficult for a HVAC mfg ... > > > Mechanical timers ignore power outages. > > ....and they are also very cheap, reliable and will switch a lot of current. Replace that with electronics and it would cost ten times as much. Engineering is about making the solution fit the problem, so why make stuff more complicated than it needs to be ?... Regards, Chris
From: Jim Thompson on 29 Oct 2009 12:58 On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:59:07 -0700, Charlie E. <edmondson(a)ieee.org> wrote: >On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:16:21 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >wrote: > >>Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:16:29 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Charlie E. wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:00:28 +0000, Martin Brown >>>>> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>>> ChrisQ wrote: >>>>>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>>>>> On the news a few days ago: They had to close the "environmentally >>>>>>>>> compliant" new wing of a school because of H1N1. The old (real) >>>>>>>>> buildings exhibited little problems because you could open windows, >>>>>>>>> "hallways" were outdoors, etc. The newfangled building was >>>>>>>>> essentially a giant petri dish and so the kids there got sick. So >>>>>>>>> much for progress. >>>>>> That is a weakness of a lot of the no external opening windows designs. >>>>>> Sick building syndrome as the formaldehyde and other junk from the >>>>>> furniture and carpets accumulates in a poorly ventilated space. There is >>>>>> no excuse for not having fresh air heated by outgoing stale air though. >>>>> <snip> >>>>> >>>>> My home here (three years new) has not only double pane windows, it >>>>> also has plastic sealing in all the exterior walls. In a 70 mph wind, >>>>> there are only a few places where I can feel a draft - one by a wall >>>>> outlet, and the other around my back door. The door flexes enough to >>>>> release the weather stripping! >>>>> >>>>> But, my HVAC system also has a timer that causes it to go on with the >>>>> fan only at least every so often, and the system has an intake to the >>>>> outside for fresh air. ... >>>> >>>> I've always wondered where to get those. It would need to be before the >>>> filter or have its own filter. This whole concept of whole house fans is >>>> so strange, they rely on venting out instead of in so all the dust and >>>> pollen is sucked into the house. In Australia there are (IIRC) systems >>>> that blow in instead, makes a lot more sense. Never seen that in the US. >>>> >>>> [...] >>> >>> What does it matter, push or suck? As long as the filter is on the >>> inlet side? I think, actually, suction is more efficient. >>> >> >>For a whole house fan you need to have a huge opening, meaning at least >>one of the big glass sliders. If you don't then you'll have stuff flying >>about. Unfortunately it ain't practical to have a 3ft*6ft filter tacked >>to the screen door even if you managed to find one ;-) >> >>I think this whole technology is rather stone-age. Same with swamp >>coolers. All you can buy is those big and ugly boxes. Nobody makes a >>flat one with a nice cartridge filter. Progress in that domain seems to >>be as sluggish as it is with pellet stoves. > >Well, I saw an evaporative assisted air conditioner unit, where it >sprays water on the coils, that would be especially usefull out here >in the desert. Rheem brand A/C units immerse the condenser coils in a water bath fed from a simple-minded evap cooler. Seemed a keen idea, _except_ I fret over scaling problems, given you could build a sturdy house from Phoenix water ;-) > >But, evaporative coolers need to be pretty big. The concept is that >there is not too fast a flow through the mats to provide time for >evaporation to occur and give the necessary cooling. Surface area >means added throughput. > >Charlie You just need enough area to ensure you can't pull droplets off the pads. I never had that problem, and I had a 6000CFM unit. I always used the old-fashioned Aspen pads. I tried fiberglass and those pressed paper POS'. Aspen expands when wet and doesn't develop holes. It's been fifteen years since I last had an evap cooler, so I don't know what's available now-a-days. I got my first evap cooler at the manufacturer because they weren't then commonly available at Home Depot. Had a nice chat with the plant manager... it's a year-round business, when he wasn't selling in AZ, he was selling in Saudi Arabia ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | "Somebody had to build the ceiling... before Michelangelo could go to work." - John Ratzenberger http://analog-innovations.com/SED/Somebody_had_to_build_the_ceiling.pdf
From: Joerg on 29 Oct 2009 14:01 JosephKK wrote: > On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:57:15 -0400, Les Cargill > <lcargill99(a)comcast.net> wrote: > >> JosephKK wrote: >>> On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:43:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> <snip> >>> I can't stand Johnsonville products, they are too fatty. >> So grill the fat out of them. They're good like that. 80/20 hamburger >> has the same basic feature - it's too fatty unless you cook >> out the fat, but the fat burns, making things tasty. > > And i get an even better taste with 7 to 10 % initial fat. YMMV > > The Johnsonville brats are about 30 to 35 %. Much of which leaves them if poked and barbequed properly. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Joerg on 29 Oct 2009 14:06 Michael A. Terrell wrote: > Joerg wrote: >> Easy with a mechanical timer if needed. But that's what the CD4060 was >> invented for. Maybe that's too difficult for a HVAC mfg ... > > > Mechanical timers ignore power outages. > You can make both do either/or. Mech times with li'l tic-toc movement in there, got one of those here. A CD4060 can be run off a large cap for a looong time. If designed right, and that's the trick. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: Joerg on 29 Oct 2009 14:10
krw wrote: > On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:16:29 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Charlie E. wrote: >>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:00:28 +0000, Martin Brown >>> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>> ChrisQ wrote: >>>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>>> On the news a few days ago: They had to close the "environmentally >>>>>>> compliant" new wing of a school because of H1N1. The old (real) >>>>>>> buildings exhibited little problems because you could open windows, >>>>>>> "hallways" were outdoors, etc. The newfangled building was >>>>>>> essentially a giant petri dish and so the kids there got sick. So >>>>>>> much for progress. >>>> That is a weakness of a lot of the no external opening windows designs. >>>> Sick building syndrome as the formaldehyde and other junk from the >>>> furniture and carpets accumulates in a poorly ventilated space. There is >>>> no excuse for not having fresh air heated by outgoing stale air though. >>> <snip> >>> >>> My home here (three years new) has not only double pane windows, it >>> also has plastic sealing in all the exterior walls. In a 70 mph wind, >>> there are only a few places where I can feel a draft - one by a wall >>> outlet, and the other around my back door. The door flexes enough to >>> release the weather stripping! >>> >>> But, my HVAC system also has a timer that causes it to go on with the >>> fan only at least every so often, and the system has an intake to the >>> outside for fresh air. ... >> >> I've always wondered where to get those. It would need to be before the >> filter or have its own filter. This whole concept of whole house fans is >> so strange, they rely on venting out instead of in so all the dust and >> pollen is sucked into the house. In Australia there are (IIRC) systems >> that blow in instead, makes a lot more sense. Never seen that in the US. > > I put one in my NY house. It worked. We didn't have AC so between > the whole house fan and pool we survived. ;-) The key to the whole > house fan was blowing the attic out in the evening and cooling the > house down. We then closed it up during the day. If you're going to > have windows open at all you'll have pollen in the house. I prefer > windows open, if possible. I certainly don't want the dust and > insulation from the attic in the house! > All you'd have to do there is lay a duct to the end of the attic, then put the fan and a filter there. But nobody makes them :-( I was thinking about a 6" or 8" inline fan and making my own filter. But I doubt that's going to be even close in terms of required airflow. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM. |