Ping Larkin
in [Design]
|
From: Joerg on 28 Oct 2009 17:09 Jim Thompson wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:28:12 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Jim Thompson wrote: > [snip] >>> My coolers had all the features you claim you haven't seen, except for >>> an automatic drain function. >>> >> Aha. And why did it not have that function where it's purpose would be >> so obvious? > > And why is that so obvious? How would you define that without a > microprocessor ?:-) > Nah, I'd use a CD4060. 12 cents a pop, no regulated supply, just a divider off the 24VAC thermostat line, diode, cap, triac switches valve, done :-) >> >>> Don't you always lose if you don't maintain your equipment? When I >>> had coolers, I changed out the pads every year, and flushed and >>> covered them for "winter". >>> >> You and I are engineering minds, meaning we have check lists like pilots >> do, we do the regular PM stuff, watch out for danger, our fire alarm >> batteries will be changed Saturday and not one day later, etc. Joe >> Sixpack does not do that. > > I don't either, mine are hard-wired, cabling inside of fireproof > conduit, sound off on power failure... lead acid back-up... connected > to a monitoring company. > Ok, but you do check other things like the oil in your cars regularly, don't you? Seriously, I know people who ran a car dry, forgot to "fill up" oil for who knows how long. Oil change? Huh? >> >>> Since you seem to not know all that much about coolers... all better >>> brands of cooler pumps automatically "waste" some water to keep the >>> mineral levels under control. And I had a valve on mine to allow a >>> weekly "full-flush" ;-) >>> >> I've looked at enough coolers to know that, for example, they do not do >> an automatic and complete waste after 24h or whatever of inoperation. > > Takes electronics. > Easy with a mechanical timer if needed. But that's what the CD4060 was invented for. Maybe that's too difficult for a HVAC mfg ... >> But they should. What is so difficult about that? Cuz grampa's cooler >> didn't have it either? > > Probably. Grandpa knew to go out and open the drain valve, and sneak > a swig of whiskey when no one was looking ;-) > :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
From: krw on 28 Oct 2009 19:42 On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:16:29 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >Charlie E. wrote: >> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:00:28 +0000, Martin Brown >> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> Joerg wrote: >>>> ChrisQ wrote: >>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>> On the news a few days ago: They had to close the "environmentally >>>>>> compliant" new wing of a school because of H1N1. The old (real) >>>>>> buildings exhibited little problems because you could open windows, >>>>>> "hallways" were outdoors, etc. The newfangled building was >>>>>> essentially a giant petri dish and so the kids there got sick. So >>>>>> much for progress. >>> That is a weakness of a lot of the no external opening windows designs. >>> Sick building syndrome as the formaldehyde and other junk from the >>> furniture and carpets accumulates in a poorly ventilated space. There is >>> no excuse for not having fresh air heated by outgoing stale air though. >> <snip> >> >> My home here (three years new) has not only double pane windows, it >> also has plastic sealing in all the exterior walls. In a 70 mph wind, >> there are only a few places where I can feel a draft - one by a wall >> outlet, and the other around my back door. The door flexes enough to >> release the weather stripping! >> >> But, my HVAC system also has a timer that causes it to go on with the >> fan only at least every so often, and the system has an intake to the >> outside for fresh air. ... > > >I've always wondered where to get those. It would need to be before the >filter or have its own filter. This whole concept of whole house fans is >so strange, they rely on venting out instead of in so all the dust and >pollen is sucked into the house. In Australia there are (IIRC) systems >that blow in instead, makes a lot more sense. Never seen that in the US. I put one in my NY house. It worked. We didn't have AC so between the whole house fan and pool we survived. ;-) The key to the whole house fan was blowing the attic out in the evening and cooling the house down. We then closed it up during the day. If you're going to have windows open at all you'll have pollen in the house. I prefer windows open, if possible. I certainly don't want the dust and insulation from the attic in the house!
From: krw on 28 Oct 2009 19:42 On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:49:08 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> wrote: >Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:16:21 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:16:29 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Charlie E. wrote: > >[...] > >>>>>> But, my HVAC system also has a timer that causes it to go on with the >>>>>> fan only at least every so often, and the system has an intake to the >>>>>> outside for fresh air. ... >>>>> I've always wondered where to get those. It would need to be before the >>>>> filter or have its own filter. This whole concept of whole house fans is >>>>> so strange, they rely on venting out instead of in so all the dust and >>>>> pollen is sucked into the house. In Australia there are (IIRC) systems >>>>> that blow in instead, makes a lot more sense. Never seen that in the US. >>>>> >>>>> [...] >>>> What does it matter, push or suck? As long as the filter is on the >>>> inlet side? I think, actually, suction is more efficient. >>>> >>> For a whole house fan you need to have a huge opening, meaning at least >>> one of the big glass sliders. If you don't then you'll have stuff flying >>> about. Unfortunately it ain't practical to have a 3ft*6ft filter tacked >>> to the screen door even if you managed to find one ;-) >>> >>> I think this whole technology is rather stone-age. Same with swamp >>> coolers. All you can buy is those big and ugly boxes. Nobody makes a >>> flat one with a nice cartridge filter. Progress in that domain seems to >>> be as sluggish as it is with pellet stoves. >> >> At the old house, with "dual" cooling, "swamp" + A/C, I'd run the >> swamp with no water this time of year. >> > >If the swamp coolers weren't so big and ugly ... ....and useless. ;-)
From: krw on 28 Oct 2009 19:44 On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:02:27 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon(a)My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:56:10 -0700, Charlie E. <edmondson(a)ieee.org> >wrote: > >>On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:16:29 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>wrote: >> >>>Charlie E. wrote: >>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:00:28 +0000, Martin Brown >>>> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>> ChrisQ wrote: >>>>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>>>>> On the news a few days ago: They had to close the "environmentally >>>>>>>> compliant" new wing of a school because of H1N1. The old (real) >>>>>>>> buildings exhibited little problems because you could open windows, >>>>>>>> "hallways" were outdoors, etc. The newfangled building was >>>>>>>> essentially a giant petri dish and so the kids there got sick. So >>>>>>>> much for progress. >>>>> That is a weakness of a lot of the no external opening windows designs. >>>>> Sick building syndrome as the formaldehyde and other junk from the >>>>> furniture and carpets accumulates in a poorly ventilated space. There is >>>>> no excuse for not having fresh air heated by outgoing stale air though. >>>> <snip> >>>> >>>> My home here (three years new) has not only double pane windows, it >>>> also has plastic sealing in all the exterior walls. In a 70 mph wind, >>>> there are only a few places where I can feel a draft - one by a wall >>>> outlet, and the other around my back door. The door flexes enough to >>>> release the weather stripping! >>>> >>>> But, my HVAC system also has a timer that causes it to go on with the >>>> fan only at least every so often, and the system has an intake to the >>>> outside for fresh air. ... >>> >>> >>>I've always wondered where to get those. It would need to be before the >>>filter or have its own filter. This whole concept of whole house fans is >>>so strange, they rely on venting out instead of in so all the dust and >>>pollen is sucked into the house. In Australia there are (IIRC) systems >>>that blow in instead, makes a lot more sense. Never seen that in the US. >>> >>>[...] >> >>In our case, there is a little electronics unit in the attic that >>connects to the fan lead in the thermostat, and to a damper control in >>the outside air vent. The outside air duct goes from a vent in the >>roof to the manifold in the hallway which also has return air ducts >>from the two smaller 'bedrooms' (my wife's office, and my lab!) When >>it kicks in (like right now!) it opens the ducts and turns on the >>fans. Since the manifold is before the filter, the air gets filtered >>before being circulated through the house. >> >>I know that whole house fans were usually venting types, because the >>idea was to bring in cooler outside air through all the windows, and >>vent the hot air near the ceiling into the attic and out through the >>vents there. >> >>Charlie > >Predicted high for today... 65�F... must be global Slowman slop ;-) Can't be. Too high for his IQ.
From: Jim Thompson on 28 Oct 2009 20:06
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:42:53 -0500, krw <krw(a)att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:49:08 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >wrote: > >>Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:16:21 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:16:29 -0700, Joerg <invalid(a)invalid.invalid> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Charlie E. wrote: >> >>[...] >> >>>>>>> But, my HVAC system also has a timer that causes it to go on with the >>>>>>> fan only at least every so often, and the system has an intake to the >>>>>>> outside for fresh air. ... >>>>>> I've always wondered where to get those. It would need to be before the >>>>>> filter or have its own filter. This whole concept of whole house fans is >>>>>> so strange, they rely on venting out instead of in so all the dust and >>>>>> pollen is sucked into the house. In Australia there are (IIRC) systems >>>>>> that blow in instead, makes a lot more sense. Never seen that in the US. >>>>>> >>>>>> [...] >>>>> What does it matter, push or suck? As long as the filter is on the >>>>> inlet side? I think, actually, suction is more efficient. >>>>> >>>> For a whole house fan you need to have a huge opening, meaning at least >>>> one of the big glass sliders. If you don't then you'll have stuff flying >>>> about. Unfortunately it ain't practical to have a 3ft*6ft filter tacked >>>> to the screen door even if you managed to find one ;-) >>>> >>>> I think this whole technology is rather stone-age. Same with swamp >>>> coolers. All you can buy is those big and ugly boxes. Nobody makes a >>>> flat one with a nice cartridge filter. Progress in that domain seems to >>>> be as sluggish as it is with pellet stoves. >>> >>> At the old house, with "dual" cooling, "swamp" + A/C, I'd run the >>> swamp with no water this time of year. >>> >> >>If the swamp coolers weren't so big and ugly ... > >...and useless. ;-) Not in AZ. I can produce air (in April thru early July) so cold you would think you could hang meat (around 60�F exit temperature at 6000 CFM ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | "Somebody had to build the ceiling... before Michelangelo could go to work." - John Ratzenberger http://analog-innovations.com/SED/Somebody_had_to_build_the_ceiling.pdf |