The Electric Car
in [Design]
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From: Glen Walpert on 9 Oct 2007 18:10 On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 13:15:45 -0700, Fred Abse <excretatauris(a)cerebrumconfus.it> wrote: >On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:29:44 +0000, Glen Walpert wrote: > >> I have done some work on these too, including the >> defunct Clinch River Fast Breeder Reactor primary sodium pump seal. >> Hot liquid sodium qualifies as a fairly nasty fluid - but only if it >> leaks :-). > >Hot UF6 is pretty nasty, too. I read somewhere a long time ago that they >started building the Oak Ridge diffusion plant without any idea how to >make pump seals that would stand the stuff. Some guy called, IIRC, Judson >Swearingen came up with the goods just in time. D'you happen to know if >how it was done ever got declassified? I don't know anything about that, and don't know if it was ever declassified, but in general they are not too good about declassifying that sort of information IME. Obviously the information is out there, considering the number of enrichment plants in operation today, but that has not stopped efforts to limit access to detailed info on how it is done. The classified info that irks me most is the Navy rules for safe reactor construction and operation. Admiral Rickover did a pretty good job creating these rules, judging by the Navy's safety record, and it is a pity we can't compare "Ricky's rules" to the safety rules in effect for commercial power plants. If TMI had followed Navy standard safety practice the accident definitely would not have happened, at least two of the amazing series of problems leading to the accident would have been prevented. But those standard practices are classified, and it is my opinion that much more harm than good is done by it.
From: Richard Henry on 9 Oct 2007 18:14 On Oct 9, 3:10 pm, Glen Walpert <gwalp...(a)notaxs.com> wrote: > On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 13:15:45 -0700, Fred Abse > > <excretatau...(a)cerebrumconfus.it> wrote: > >On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:29:44 +0000, Glen Walpert wrote: > > >> I have done some work on these too, including the > >> defunct Clinch River Fast Breeder Reactor primary sodium pump seal. > >> Hot liquid sodium qualifies as a fairly nasty fluid - but only if it > >> leaks :-). > > >Hot UF6 is pretty nasty, too. I read somewhere a long time ago that they > >started building the Oak Ridge diffusion plant without any idea how to > >make pump seals that would stand the stuff. Some guy called, IIRC, Judson > >Swearingen came up with the goods just in time. D'you happen to know if > >how it was done ever got declassified? > > I don't know anything about that, and don't know if it was ever > declassified, but in general they are not too good about declassifying > that sort of information IME. Obviously the information is out there, > considering the number of enrichment plants in operation today, but > that has not stopped efforts to limit access to detailed info on how > it is done. > > The classified info that irks me most is the Navy rules for safe > reactor construction and operation. Admiral Rickover did a pretty > good job creating these rules, judging by the Navy's safety record, > and it is a pity we can't compare "Ricky's rules" to the safety rules > in effect for commercial power plants. If TMI had followed Navy > standard safety practice the accident definitely would not have > happened, at least two of the amazing series of problems leading to > the accident would have been prevented. But those standard practices > are classified, and it is my opinion that much more harm than good is > done by it. The Navy has an advantage in enforcing its safety rules. The operators have an extreme incentive to maintaining safe operation and safe equipment since they sleep in the plant.
From: Rock Brentwood on 9 Oct 2007 18:59 On Oct 5, 3:47 pm, "zzbun...(a)netscape.net" <zzbun...(a)netscape.net> wrote: > The main problem with batteries, is just simply people > who don't know how to drive, or know anything about aerodynamics, > Since electric starters where only even invented, orignally, > for people who just can't function without automatic transmissions. Toyota is coming out with a Lithium-based car in the near future. I think the first car to ever hit 100 MPH was electric. There was a news segment done recently on an electric cycle, the machine gets up to 150 MPH and does 0-60 in 1 second. That's pretty violent acceleration, on par with fighter jets and rockets. A look at its operation reminded me of stepper motors.
From: Glen Walpert on 9 Oct 2007 21:17 On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 13:15:46 -0700, Fred Abse <excretatauris(a)cerebrumconfus.it> wrote: >On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 02:11:19 +0000, Glen Walpert wrote: > >> He might have been right about the projections, although lifetime >> projections are normally correlated against test data before being >> accepted as meaningful. I never heard of any problems with the >> oxidizer turbopumps failing in flight, have there been failures? > >Not outright failures in service, but "cracks have been found in the >turbine blades of the high pressure oxygen turbopump". He was talking >about the inherent deficiencies of top-down design vis-a-vis the >inaccessibility of certain critical parts. > >It's interesting reading, lacking none of Feynman's customary clarity and >incisiveness, despite the fact that, by this time, he was dying, and knew >it. > >Available at: > >http://history.nasa.gov/rogersrep/v2appf.htm Thanks, very interesting indeed. Great conclusions: -------- "Official management, on the other hand, claims to believe the probability of failure is a thousand times less. One reason for this may be an attempt to assure the government of NASA perfection and success in order to ensure the supply of funds. The other may be that they sincerely believed it to be true, demonstrating an almost incredible lack of communication between themselves and their working engineers." .... "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -------- <rant> One often finds this sort of management disconnect from reality. I think that the fault lies at least in part with the standard doctrine at most if not all business schools, that it is not necessary to understand a process in order to manage it. They point to the possibility of getting bogged down details, doing the work rather than managing it, and claim it is actually better not to understand the details of how the process works. Just apply these management principles and profits will be maximized, they say. No doubt some managers have gotten bogged down with details, but far more often they make bad decisions based on a failure to understand key issues. The motivation for this teaching is pretty clear: hire only business school grads for management positions is the actual self-serving message; don't promote line personell from within no matter how much they know about the business, you need an MBA! </rant>
From: John Larkin on 9 Oct 2007 22:49
On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 13:15:45 -0700, Fred Abse <excretatauris(a)cerebrumconfus.it> wrote: >On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:29:44 +0000, Glen Walpert wrote: > >> I have done some work on these too, including the >> defunct Clinch River Fast Breeder Reactor primary sodium pump seal. >> Hot liquid sodium qualifies as a fairly nasty fluid - but only if it >> leaks :-). > >Hot UF6 is pretty nasty, too. I read somewhere a long time ago that they >started building the Oak Ridge diffusion plant without any idea how to >make pump seals that would stand the stuff. Some guy called, IIRC, Judson >Swearingen came up with the goods just in time. D'you happen to know if >how it was done ever got declassified? Just outside of Richland, Wa, in the Hanford nuclear reserve, clearly visible from town, is a someday-to-be dismantled, huge spherical liquid plutonium reactor. John |