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From: JosephKK on 17 Dec 2005 07:10 Peter T. Breuer wrote: > In comp.os.linux.misc Lee Sau Dan <danlee(a)informatik.uni-freiburg.de> > wrote: >>>>>>> "Peter" == Peter T Breuer <ptb(a)oboe.it.uc3m.es> writes: > >> Peter> About five or six .. file, directory, link, special device >> Peter> inode, socket, pipe, ... anything else? > >> >> Read 'man find' to learn how much you're missing! > >> Peter> I don't have to - there are only those types of inode. The >> Peter> man page lists 7, because it distinguishes char special >> Peter> device and block special device. > >> So, you missed the other predicates like -print, -exec, etc.? > > I was talking about the -type atomic. If you want to talk about > something else, talk away. > > Peter Peter, Lee, you are both a couple of fools talking at cross purposes. Peter is trying to pointy-clicky advanced reasoning (probably to no avail) and Lee is trying to tell lusers that CLI is god (which they do not want to hear). -- JosephKK
From: blmblm on 17 Dec 2005 08:16 In article <43a2cbab$9$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice(a)news.patriot.net>, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap(a)library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote: >In <40dfsgF1a097eU1(a)individual.net>, on 12/15/2005 > at 03:19 PM, blmblm(a)myrealbox.com said: > >>Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but you sound a bit defensive here, so -- >>I don't mean this as a put-down of non-native speakers. It's just >>that in my experience there's a class of "mistakes" -- >>call them "unidiomatic usage" -- that are commonly made by people who >>learn a language as adults, but rarely if ever made by people who >>learn the same language as children. > >My experience is that those whose first language is Hebrew and later >learned English have trouble knowing when to use a gerund and when to >use an infinitive. That doesn't seem to be a problem for native >Anglophones. In other areas foreign speakers of English often have >better grammar than native Anglophones. Yes, exactly. It's not that foreign speakers make *more* mistakes; it's that they make *different* mistakes. Examples: I frequently hear foreign speakers say "I have a doubt about [ whatever ]," where a native speaker would say "I have a question." People whose first language is German seem to say "since several years [ this has been happening ]," where a native speaker would say "for several years." Etc., etc. Then again, I frequently hear native speakers say "me and him went [ wherever ]," and I don't know that I've ever heard a foreign speaker of English say that. >I believe that regardless of the languages, people have trouble with >idioms when going from on e language to another. I know that I've had >trouble translating things that I wrote into English, even though it >is my native tongue. > >>And there were plenty of other things I couldn't get my head around >>in trying to learn Spanish. For example, the names of the verb >>tenses seemed to mostly be like those of English verb tenses, but >>when to use them was not exactly the same. > >That's also an issue in programming languages; superficial >similarities can trigger habits that are inappropriate. Isn't it, though. I'm not sure I should even mention my favorite example, but -- C++, Java, "reference" should give a hint. But I think my difficulties didn't really have much to with overlapping terminology; I think the real problem .... I don't know how to say this well, but for example two sentences that would use the same verb tense in English would sometimes use different tenses in Spanish. I *think* that if I tried this again now, I would understand better that memorizing rules only goes so far toward mastering another language and be less bothered by this sort of thing. -- | B. L. Massingill | ObDisclaimer: I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.
From: blmblm on 17 Dec 2005 08:21 In article <op.s1wtmlq4nxtvbs(a)apeiron.home.lan>, Enrique Perez-Terron <enrio(a)online.no> wrote: >On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:00:01 +0100, <blmblm(a)myrealbox.com> wrote: > >> Or maybe it's just that most people are lazy and not very smart. > >I have never heard of children not learing their first language "because >they are lazy". > >I once read a statement that children's brains are very rich in cross >connections, and much of their learing happens by severing connections, >while grown-ups learn by making new connections. > >I also have read about children being sensitive to the full range of >language sounds, while grown-ups loose sensibility to shades of sound >that do not carry information in the language. I have been told >that this is what happens to japaneese having difficulties keeping 'r' >and 'l' straight. Their language has a sound whose natural variability >spans the range between what we would consider a clear 'r' to a >clear 'l'. This all matches my recollections of things I've read about language acquisition in children. I'm especially intrigued by the claims that if you don't learn as a child to hear a distinction between two sounds, it may not be possible to correct this later. >I had myself a tri-lingual upbringing, and still feel very intrigued >by everything that has to do with languages. As am I -- so I am finding this an interesting if somewhat off-topic thread drift .... The whole process by which children learn language seems to me to be mysterious and fascinating. [ snip ] -- | B. L. Massingill | ObDisclaimer: I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.
From: Peter T. Breuer on 17 Dec 2005 09:44 In comp.os.linux.misc blmblm(a)myrealbox.com wrote: > I frequently hear foreign speakers say "I have a doubt about > [ whatever ]," where a native speaker would say "I have a question." That's spanish. Spanish only, as far as I know. It seems to be a polite circumlocution, inviting the responder to sooth away the doubt (I am tempted to answer "well, see a spirtual advisor"). > People whose first language is German seem to say "since several years > [ this has been happening ]," where a native speaker would say "for > several years." That's indeed german usage. The "seit" ("since") fixes the startpoint for the rest of the clause. > Then again, I frequently hear native speakers say "me and him went > [ wherever ]," and I don't know that I've ever heard a foreign speaker > of English say that. Yes. >>That's also an issue in programming languages; superficial >>similarities can trigger habits that are inappropriate. > Isn't it, though. I'm not sure I should even mention my favorite > example, but -- C++, Java, "reference" should give a hint. I see. > But I think my difficulties didn't really have much to with > overlapping terminology; I think the real problem .... I don't > know how to say this well, but for example two sentences that would > use the same verb tense in English would sometimes use different > tenses in Spanish. I *think* that if I tried this again now, It's possible. I don't really know the tenses in spanish - after a negative or an if one goes into the subjunctive, but in many situations the present tense will do. Peter
From: blmblm on 17 Dec 2005 13:31
In article <3skd73-t1h.ln1(a)news.it.uc3m.es>, Peter T. Breuer <ptb(a)oboe.it.uc3m.es> wrote: >In comp.os.linux.misc blmblm(a)myrealbox.com wrote: >> I frequently hear foreign speakers say "I have a doubt about >> [ whatever ]," where a native speaker would say "I have a question." > >That's spanish. Spanish only, as far as I know. It seems to be a polite >circumlocution, inviting the responder to sooth away the doubt (I am >tempted to answer "well, see a spirtual advisor"). Hm .... I might not have explained that one well. This happens in contexts in which soothing away doubts seems .... not what's wanted. "I have a doubt about Fortran. Does it always pass parameters by reference?" Or "I have a doubt about bash. How do I search for something in the command history?" I'm making these up rather than attempting to remember and quote, but I'm pretty sure they're representative. As for Spanish only -- I asked this question in alt.usage.english a while back and was told that people whose first language is Italian also seem to employ this usage. Could be, no? [ snip ] >> But I think my difficulties didn't really have much to with >> overlapping terminology; I think the real problem .... I don't >> know how to say this well, but for example two sentences that would >> use the same verb tense in English would sometimes use different >> tenses in Spanish. I *think* that if I tried this again now, > >It's possible. I don't really know the tenses in spanish - after a >negative or an if one goes into the subjunctive, but in many situations >the present tense will do. I think maybe what I'm remembering is something like when to say "I go" and when to say "I am going." My recollection is that Spanish draws the lines between these two in different places from English. -- | B. L. Massingill | ObDisclaimer: I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor. |